From the WNIN Tri-State Public Media Center in downtown Evansville.

I'm David James, and this is two Main Street.

This program includes a conversation about suicide, especially among the youth in the LGBTQ plus community.

Research has shown that having at least one accepting adult in their lives reduces the risk of suicide by 40%.

That's according to The Trevor Project, a nonprofit organization providing prevention and crisis intervention.

My guests are two women with personal stories about children growing up and discovering a different identity from most of their peers.

Karen Edwards is the local author of My Kids Gay and I'm Okay.

And Melanie Odgers is the state chapter leader at Free Mom Hugs Indiana.

So guys, welcome to two Main Street.

Thank you.

First, let's identify who we're talking about in the LGBTQ plus community.

An acronym.

Who are these people?

They're the people that are part of make up.

Gays and lesbians, trans lesbian, gay, trans.

Bisexual.

Queer.

And the plus is for all the other identities.

So we're talking about a large group of people.

Large?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And, these are people that, many of you out there may know.

And, according to ladies, they often need a hug, don't they?

Yes, sir.

So, Karen Edwards, let's talk about your book.

My kid's gay, and I'm okay.

It's about Rachel, your daughter.

And, obviously she's okay with this book because she's the illustrator of it.

You know, like I told you earlier, I was, I wrote it, and I sent it to her and said, can I have your permission to publish this?

And she came back a couple days later and she said, sure, sure can.

But I'm going to illustrate it.

And at first I was like, oh, gosh.

And she goes, no, it needs it.

And I'll admit, she was right.

I was wrong.

And it's exactly what it needed.

Excellent illustrations.

Thank you.

Definitely.

So is she a professional artist?

She is.

She works in vet med, but her degree is in, art.

And then also a minor in color theory, which sounds kind of crazy, but if you want anything done in the house, she's the person to call.

She's my go to for that.

All right.

So why the need to write the book, Karen Edwards?

Well, I came up with the idea probably came about 13 years ago, and I had talked to some people and said, I would like to write a book for parents because there wasn't anything for me to find that I could find relatable, that, you know, this is our journey.

This is how I handled it.

This is what I did.

Type of thing.

No kind of guide or anything.

And so someone said, oh, that had been ten years ago, but that ship has sailed.

Well, a couple of years ago, all this legislation, I felt like their rights were going backwards and that there's so much misinformation and there's a lot of people that are not a lot.

There's more people supportive than there are negative, but they don't talk as loudly as the people who are negative.

So I felt like it was important to go ahead and write the story and share it with parents and friends and the Lgbtq+ community as well, so that they know they're not alone.

There is support out there and that this is part nature.

This is absolutely natural.

May not be natural to you or I, but it is natural.

Now the message here is unconditional love.

But, unfortunately, it's difficult for many parents and caregivers to accept, this transition that someone has accepted this new identity.

And this is also described as spreading radical love.

Is that correct?

Melanie.

Some people refer to it that way.

So the the whole idea of hugs.

How did that come about.

Melanie.

Actually our founder, Sarah Cunningham I was just with her last weekend.

She's from Oklahoma City.

When her son Parker came out as gay, she was a Christian conservative mother living in Oklahoma City.

She was very conflicted by her love for her son and her spirituality.

So she searched her faith and exhausted exhaustively researched sexuality, for answers and what she learned kind of transformed her journey from her faith to the pride parade, to openly accepting Parker and creating this huge movement of free mom hugs so that other kids you know, that may not have that support could say I loved you.

How did you get involved in this organization?

Well, it started, a friend, some friends of ours, their son, is trans.

And so going through that journey with them made me want to be, you know, a more active ally.

And then a couple of years ago, one of my children, we found out that when she was 13 years old, a she came out to a trusted family member.

And without my knowledge, that family member sent her to, conversion therapy camp, which is also known as pray the Gay away.

Pray the gay away.

Yes, sir.

Reparative therapy.

And it it did a lot of damage emotionally mentally to her.

And she's lived with this and struggled with it all these years.

And she told me maybe three, two, three years ago.

And you're emotional about this.

Tell me about this camp.

Where was that at?

It was in here in Indiana.

Really?

So what was the regimen of this camp that you found out?

She hasn't given me a lot of details.

She.

It's really, really difficult for her to discuss.

I know that it made her scared to be part of the LGBTQ community.

And she's scared to talk about it.

As time goes on and by me showing her that she can be whoever she wants to be, and no matter what she does, I'm going to love her unconditionally.

It's helping.

And I just, I hope that one day she's going to be okay with it.

Now there's also, hormone therapy that they, they try to change the orientation of, of young people.

Do you know much about that.

Not really.

No.

But she didn't go through that.

No she didn't.

My my children's godparents, their son Blake, went through hormone therapy because he's trans.

But it's very, very different than what you're talking about.

Okay.

Okay.

Karen, there's a chapter in your book, chapter five, that I found very interesting called Mama Bear.

And you went all mama bear on someone.

Tell me about that episode.

Oh, okay.

I'll clean it up a little bit.

We.

My daughter was.

And she was getting ready to go back to Colorado after school.

And like we do, we go and get them school supplies and new underwear and things like that.

So we went down to the Vanity Fair outlet down there in Hanson, Kentucky, and we're walking around.

She's walking behind me and a couple not much older than her walking toward her.

They pass me and also I hear this ruckus and I turn around and she is in a round clothing, display, and she was kind of clumsy.

I hope she doesn't hear this, but she's kind of.

She was clumsy, and I nicknamed her Grace.

And I was like, hey, Grace, come on.

And so she goes, and she pulls herself up and she's 20, 21.

She was dressed, you know, just t shirt and jeans.

She goes, that guy shoved me.

I said, what guy?

She was that guy.

And it was the couple who had just passed us.

And he is walking behind his wife.

And I'm a post-menopausal woman that's full of rage that I discovered that day.

And, I zeroed in on him.

And by this time, they're walking back toward us, and I'm walking with a very distinct purpose toward him.

And as we get even all of a sudden, I'm shaking now talking about it, but all of a sudden I'm, looking at him going, do you knock your wife around like that?

And he turned his head away from me.

And his wife, of course, is looking at me like, who's this crazy woman?

And then looking at him.

And as they walk past, I continue to follow him through the store, pretty much saying that with some other extra language.

And my daughter was following.

She didn't have anything to say.

He never turned and looked at me.

He never confronted me.

He was your idea of a bully.

He thought he could do it and get away with it.

And I got to the car, I checked out, I thought, I'm I'm going to get arrested, you know, because I really I was hoping to kind of swing, you know, and I'm not I've never really gotten into a fight with anybody.

This was just, I mean, just pure adrenaline going at that point time.

So I check out and I get in the car and I apologize to my daughter acting that way, because if my mother had acted like this crazy woman, I would have been horrified.

And she said, oh, mom, you know, I know you got my back now.

And I was like, yeah.

And then all the way home, I was like, where did it come from?

I mean, it was it just bubbled out of me and it was looking back.

Now I'm like, ooh.

But, yeah, it came out of nowhere.

That was more than a hug.

It was?

Yeah.

So did you ever have any reasoning for why you.

He couldn't talk to me.

He would not talk to me.

He would not even make eye contact with me.

Well, what did his wife think about this?

She just looked at me like, who's this crazy woman?

And she didn't know what?

She had no idea what.

And she'd look at him and he.

His head is down looking away from me.

And I mean, I am, like, doing the mom thing with the finger going, and how dare you, you coward, you bully, you know, and a few other things that I can't see on the air, but, well, hopefully he got it when he got home.

I hope him.

I hope so.

That's.

Well, good for you.

Good for you.

So, Melanie, any any, confrontations you've had?

In your activism that you want to share?

When we are in our free house attire, we are.

We don't engage with protesters or anything like that.

We see a lot of protesters at pride events.

Unfortunately, recently there was a the Proud Boys were there, and they assaulted a girl at a at a pride event.

Yes.

How did they assault, I mean, to push her or their gender to the ground?

Oh, real men there.

Very much so.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

If you engage with these people they're going to use it against you.

I've been videotaped.

They videotaped children, but we're the bad guys, but they're videotaping children coming into these events.

So you know I just learned don't don't engage because they're going to find a way to make you look bad.

So I've hugged protesters told them that I love them because they're more than welcome to stand up there and spew hate.

But I'm not about that.

How do they react when you hug me?

Some of them think that, you know, gay.

It's contagious.

Yeah.

You know it is.

So very soon, I've had a few that have, like, interacted with me, thanked me for the hug, but for the most part, they don't want to touch me.

They have called me a groomer.

They have called me a child molester.

A lot of other words that I probably can't say.

So, like I said, my my biggest piece of advice for anyone that's dealing with things like that is just don't engage.

Ignore it.

This past weekend, there was protesters at Louisville Pride, and we just stood in front of them.

And we're just saying, love you, happy pride.

Trying to kind of drown them out so that people aren't exposed to it is very triggering for a lot of kids.

And I say kids because I'm old.

But, it's very, very triggering.

I mean, I found people in my arms because it's just wrecked them.

Now you live in Center Grove and Center Grove, but you're involved in both, free mom hugs in Indiana and Kentucky.

I am actually one of three people that run Indiana.

Myself, Heidi and Adrianna.

And then there's not a leader for Kentucky right now.

So me having, you know, 14 seconds of free time, I decided, sure, I'll do that to you.

So now we are actively looking for leadership in Kentucky.

But until then, I will drive wherever I'm needed.

Well, how is that event in Louisville?

The pride event?

It was amazing.

So much love, so much happiness.

We walked in the parade, and I ended up probably.

12 people behind us, 12 groups behind us.

Because I'm stopping.

Give hugs and love people along the parade route.

It was very emotional.

There's this thing we we call the spark, and it's that initial hug where you're hugging somebody and it can be very, very emotional, very powerful.

Our only rule for freedom hugs is we do not let go until you do.

So we will sit and hold you for as long as you need it.

I've had people break down in my arms.

The stories that I've heard over the years are so powerful, and it's honestly the best feeling, knowing that I can be there for someone when they need it.

It's unfortunately when people come out.

A lot of them don't have that support that they need.

And from hugs, we hope to bridge the gap between families.

But until that can happen, we're happy to be there.

And we're going to love you unconditionally.

And we'll hug you and support you and listen to you.

We'll show up at weddings.

It was, you know, for birthdays.

Whatever you need, we'll be there.

Okay.

Karen, any, events that you pretended that, you want to share your thoughts about, pride events here locally?

I think the pride events have been absolutely wonderful.

I went in 2019 for that was the first time we had them here in Evansville.

And, I got a free Mom Hugs button and ran around and got to hug some people, and I ran to target afterwards, and I ran to the cosmetic section and the girl said, I can help you.

You know, the target associate.

And so I'm picking some stuff up.

She showed me where it's at.

And then she looked at me and she says, I'm going down there tonight.

I said, are you going by yourself?

And she said, no.

And I said, okay, be careful.

It's in a bad part of town, but it's a lot of fun, you know?

So just just be careful.

And then she looked at me.

She goes, can I have a hug?

And it was the first time that it happened to me you know.

And I go yeah.

And so I'm hugging her in target with my cosmetics in my hand.

And then she whispers in my ear, she said I've needed this a and I just, I teared up that spark, it is that spark and that really tied everything.

And it's one thing to talk about the free mom hugs and what they're offering and everything, and then to experience that first time.

And then that happened to me at this pride last weekend.

A young lady was walking when I was going toward it and she said, I see you have a free mom hug, but not I go, I do, and she goes, can I have a hug?

And it's I'm hugging her.

And then she let go.

So I let go.

I said, who did you come down here with?

She goes, I came by myself and she was probably 17 to 20 ish.

And I said, well, would you like to walk around with me?

And she said, I would, but I got to go to work.

And I said, okay.

I asked her where she worked, and she was telling me, told me your name.

And I said, well, can I have a hug from you?

And she goes, yes.

And so we're hugging again and it's just, you know, I realize that my daughter probably came out to somebody before she came out to me.

And so they gave her support that she needed.

And so if I can pay that back to somebody else until they can get to the point where they feel strong enough and safe enough to share because it is a journey.

It's a journey for the entire family.

So, Karen, let's go back to your book.

The illustrator is your daughter, Rachel, and tell me more about, Rachel.

She's your only child.

No, she's my oldest one.

That broke me in as a mom.

And, she's pretty phenomenal.

And then Jonathan came four years later, and, she is always.

She's a fly one.

The kindest people you'd ever want to meet.

She's crazy talented as an artist.

I mean, she can do anything.

And, she's very compassionate as well.

So she have a partner?

She does.

She is married, and it's Bailey, and, I could not get.

They've been together 11 years now.

They'll be married 5 or 6.

But just in Bailey's from a good family.

And if I could have created a partner for Rachel because she allows.

Rachel is Bailey's very quiet and not withdrawn, but very reserved.

And Rachel is very out there.

She doesn't know a stranger, and she just loves everybody and everybody's going to love her.

And Bailey lets Rachel be Rachel, and that's really what you want for your kids.

You know, someone that's going to accept them for who they are and love them and support them and not want them to be different.

So your heart is happy.

My heart is very happy.

Well, tell me about the wedding.

The wedding?

Oh, they got married and it was up in, Colorado.

And it was the venue was gorgeous and there was a fog.

It was in October and they had a pumpkin patch as wedding gifts to take home, which was cool.

And before the wedding, we look out, there's like chateau and there's a herd of elk grazing.

And it was almost something from a hallmark movie.

Sounds like.

Okay, now, Melanie, you live in the Indianapolis area?

Of course.

That's the state capital.

Lawmakers are there, and there have been some challenges to the rights of the LGBTQ plus community.

Are you worried that some of these rights may be taken away or.

Have you seen any of that?

I can speak on a personal level.

Sure.

For a few moments.

We do not ever get involved with political, things.

But personally, I am terrified that, the LGBTQ community are going to lose their rights, and it's it's not okay.

I know, there's always that discussion about these kids of different identities using the school bathrooms.

That's always some kind of.

That's a one of those trigger, trigger discussions that get people fired up and it's pronouns as well.

Oh, yeah.

What about the pronouns?

I, that's confusing to a lot of people and myself included.

Female mags actually has pronoun pins that had the the bear the moment bear the baby bear again.

Okay.

So some people identify as he he which you would you be him myself and Karen or she her.

And then some of the people identify as they them as they don't identify with either gender.

Really.

And then there's she them or they his, there's all different ways to identify.

But the simplest way is what are your pronouns.

It's a simple question.

They can make someone feel so much more comfortable.

You know.

What about the word gay.

Is that still acceptable in the men?

It is.

It depends on the age.

The younger people, they prefer the word queer.

Which to me is it's I think that's going backwards.

It is, it is because we're used to be very unaccepting.

Yeah.

That used to be derogatory.

Yes.

So they prefer and I would say the, probably the under 40 crowd and then the over 40 crowd, they're still with the gay.

The lesbians in the eyes is that's what my experience, what I've, I've noticed and what I've been told.

What does Rachel prefer?

Queer.

Really?

Yeah.

And I'm like, whoa, yeah.

The first time I heard that, I'm like, wow.

What?

Yeah, yeah.

That's okay.

Yeah.

That's it, isn't there?

That doesn't bother her.

It doesn't bother her at all.

And I've heard other members of this say the same thing, you know, hey, I'm part of the queer community, so depends on the age.

Now, Melanie, you said when you give people hugs, you hear some incredible stories.

Can you share any of those that really moved you?

Wow.

Last year I met a gentleman who was actually at Stonewall.

And tears just listening to his stories will explain what Stone Stonewall.

The Stonewall riots happened when the LGBTQ community came together and no one liked it.

They were protests.

And it was just it was it was nightmare period.

And what was his story?

He was there at the original one, and, people called him mama.

Yes.

He was just the cutest gentleman.

And I could sit and listen to him all day long.

And one of those voices, it was so soothing.

And you just hug him.

And because his mother had passed through and had a hug from his mom and a long time.

Okay.

And we get those a lot, too.

My husband hugged him as well.

He, I drag him along to all my events because, you know, a dad hug.

It's way different than a mom, I guess.

Well, that's true.

Very much so.

That's true.

So he's always happy to go out there and just be the down in the corner for whenever he's needed.

I'm taking my kids with me for sibling hugs.

So, I mean, there's free grandma hugs, free anti hugs.

The newest one is free hugs.

That's for the gay uncle.

I'm gonna go uncle.

I have not heard that okay.

Yes I love that so much.

I talked to a gentleman a couple weeks ago.

I think it was in Batesville and just the last.

He was in his 70s, like the last 50 years of his life.

It was just one story after the other.

And it all these stories, whether they be, you know, challenging times or happy times, made him into this incredible person that he was another one.

I could just listen to him forever.

And when we first met he's like you know I'm not a real physical person because some people they don't, they don't be hugged.

And we always weren't content.

I'm like that's okay.

We can high-five we can fist bump whenever you need.

And as he started talking to me and became more comfortable with me, he ended up hugging me like 4 or 5 times.

Yeah.

So what's been the the feedback, from other parents to this organization?

They, they they're welcoming this.

Are they, are they kind of leery about it or what's, what's been the feedback?

There is a group that.

Will put us out there on social media and call us, you know, child molesters or groomers or whatever.

And a lot of people think that this is not okay, that we're corrupting children.

And we're just evil, and that's okay.

You do.

You you know, I'm not going to let your opinion affect me, because if I did, I would be negative all the time.

But then there's, you know, a lot of parents too, that are very happy that we are there just a lot, you know, and I know a lot of people in the community are very happy that were there.

Have you been threatened.

Oh yeah.

Physically.

We've had a lot of run ins, protesters.

Where was I at Jeffersonville.

That's your home turf isn't it?

Didn't you grow up in that area?

You grew up in that area?

Yes.

A protester got in my face and said, I don't want anything from you not trying to engage with you.

And then they stuck a video camera in my face and were recording me, and there was a young girl there.

I say young, she's probably 18, 19 years old, who had a sign standing there in front of Brian that just said free hugs.

And she stood in between me and that guy because I asked him not to report me.

And so she stood in between us and blocked my face so he couldn't get me.

Did she get a hug later?

She did that.

She did, she did?

Yeah.

Now.

Okay.

We're going to talk now.

Serious topic.

Well, this is all series, I think, and lighthearted too.

I mean, there's a lot of a lot of joy in what you guys do, and I know you feel that too.

So the suicide risk for these young people, and I've read that having a personal touch can reduce the risk by 40%.

That's incredible.

And, some statistics from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, 61% of suicide attempts happen within five years of a person realizing they are LGBTQ.

Is that kind of what you guys have heard?

Suicide rates in the LGBTQ plus community are significantly higher.

And it's because they face so many challenges, right.

And says, another thing in this report, 80% of gay and lesbian youth report severe social isolation.

Have you witnessed that.

Yeah.

When I talked to the greater Evansville youth groups one night.

They have junior high and then high school kids.

And I asked him, I said, how many of you guys feel safe in school and less than half raise their hands?

Really?

Yeah.

And then when I asked them about home life, less than half raise their hands.

So let's learn more about my guess.

Let's start with you, Karen.

You were a military brat, is that correct?

I was a Terry brat.

So we traveled everywhere.

I was born in Germany.

I've been in 17 countries and 48 states so far.

Okay, so.

So how did you end up in Indiana?

Dad, got his PhD at Mississippi State and got picked up by it.

Was I, Ashley, at the time, the two buildings, plywood, sidewalk and gravel for the parking lot.

My mom thought he'd lost his mind.

The old Centennial School and he said, I want to be on the ground floor.

She goes, I think you found it.

So?

So he was very proud of the university.

My parents worked very hard with the rest of the staff and and stuff to get it where it's at now gave it a strong foundation.

So you've been in Evansville since 1976.

All right.

Now, Melanie, what's your hometown?

Do you have a hometown?

Oh, I like Karen and moved around a lot.

We moved around a lot.

And it's just because my father was in business and he would open up new businesses, and, I can't remember staying in the same place for more than a year up until I was probably 13.

But then I ended up, you know, when I was technically an adult, ended up in Jeffersonville, actually the area and stayed there and then I eventually moved to California and then, I was tired of not seeing my grandkids all the time.

So we moved back to Indiana.

Okay.

All right.

Now, the process of coming out as a lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or queer.

Now, in your personal experience, when does someone reach that point?

It's different for everyone.

Some people, as soon as they realize it, I mean, as early as five years old, can feel comfortable saying, hey, this is who I am.

Other people are scared because of society and the way that they are.

They say closeted, for a long time.

Some people stay closeted their entire lives because they're afraid to come out, so they're scared, confused and vulnerable.

And when a person comes out, they can feel relieved and empowered.

Is that correct?

Yes.

For the most part, yes.

But they need that support.

Yes very much so.

That support is so very very important.

So you know I would think it'd be very frustrating for a child who's different.

And they don't get that support from their parents, their home life.

And that's got to be just devastating I would think.

Yeah.

It breaks my heart really.

As you know, as a mom, my job is to love my children.

And initially and all of my children know that I don't care what what you did.

Well, you know, for the most part, but who you love, that's who you love.

And I'm going to love you no matter what.

I would like to get some grandkids out of it, but I just want my kids to be happy.

That's all I care about.

And I wish all parents felt that way.

And like with Rachel, when you know, she came out, I didn't care.

I was like, I want you, like you said, to be happy.

We always look at our kids that they're going to have a first, like first step, first words, first whatever.

And I think as at my age, in life, I'm still celebrating all my kids.

First, their first love, their first marriage, and hopefully the only one.

But, you know, first job out of college, graduating college and you know, I get calls for my kids almost every day and they're wanting to tell me something that happened in their day that they've never experienced.

And it's something I've experienced a million times in my life.

But it was a first for them.

So had I turned my back on my daughter at 18 or 19, I would have missed out on so much of her life.

Her life would have gone on without me.

You know, and it wouldn't have been easy.

And it's nobody's life's easy I don't care.

You know, it's just life.

But she would have gone on and been as successful as she is.

And there's no doubt in my mind.

And I'm the one that messed up.

I missed out on seeing her walk the college graduation.

I missed out on her landing her first job, art job, printing her for, you know, being the first illustrated at 19.

She had her first book illustrator at that age.

And, you know, she's still calling me every day.

And I'm so thankful for those phone calls that I'm a part of her life.

Three stages of coming out, coming out to self.

I guess that's the first one.

And coming out to others and then living out.

And so what have you learned from those who have re-identify themselves.

And I'm sure it takes a lot of courage.

It has, it has a lot of people in the community are afraid to live out like you said.

Because people are just not nice.

Unfortunately they're not.

We have all these protests for groups and non affirming churches that make them feel like they're less than just because they're not conforming to what that person thinks they should be, when who they are is exactly who they're supposed to be.

They're perfect exactly the way that they are.

So to me, it can be very scary because you never know who you're going to come across or come and contact with or are you very proud of your daughter?

I'm very proud of my daughter.

It sounds like it.

So she has, And like you said, she has a wonderful partner and good job.

And doing well, she is.

That's all parent can ask for, right?

Right, right.

And when she was younger, you know, I would say one day you're going to meet this really great guy.

You know?

So after she met Bailey, I said, I'm really sorry to put that pressure on you.

And she goes, oh, mom, I didn't even know myself.

You know, she goes, I remember having a crush on somebody.

She was looking back, you know, I was in kindergarten.

I go, yeah.

And she goes, and it was a girl.

Oh, really?

And I go, okay, you know.

And I look back when I had my first crush and it was a boy.

And I've talked to other people and they see pretty much same thing.

But I kept being told I was going to meet a guy or a girl or something.

And they, they do try to make that work to conform.

I know you mentioned in your book, about Rachel being away at college, meeting this nice guy, but she says it's just not going to work out.

No.

Tell me about it.

She called me because I kept telling her what she.

She had said she was bi.

And then I said, you know, my friends who came out, they started off saying that, and then they down the road realize that they're lesbian or gay.

Nope.

Not me.

If I, if I met a guy that did it for me, I, you know that's not a problem.

I said okay, so about a year after our last conversation like that, she calls me, she's in Colorado and she says, hey, I got to talk to you.

Was first she text me, are you up to 11:00 at night?

So I said, sure am.

So she calls me.

So she says she's met this guy.

Really great.

Going to medical school, EMT.

She goes.

Everything you say for me to look for in a partner.

This guy's it.

And I go, great.

And so she went through the date and basically she said at the end of the date, he went in to kiss me.

And she was it made me sick to my stomach.

She goes, I pulled away and I said, I'm sorry, it's not you.

It is definitely me.

And she said, mom in her voice crack.

She goes, I am gay.

And I just sat there and I said, hey kid, if God told me he could come down and make you not gay and make you straight, I would tell him no, because you wouldn't be my Rachel.

And I said so it's it's fine.

You're perfect.

God made you exactly the way he expected you to be.

He doesn't make mistakes.

We can't tell these kids at four and five years old, God never makes a mistake for those who are religious.

But then at 17, 18, 19 years old, all of a sudden, you know, it's a mistake.

Why is it so difficult for people to accept this?

It seems so simple, doesn't it?

Yeah.

It's not to take too much in a religion.

And.

And there's actually a documentary out, called 1946, and it's where they studied the Bible and researched all the things and came to the conclusion that in 1946, the word homosexual was actually mistranslated.

The word homosexual was meant to be about child molesters, and people twisted it like people do.

And now it just became this huge.

Yes.

Yes.

Whereas God doesn't make mistakes.

No.

No.

Karen you also write about overcoming your own biases and fears.

So did you start out with some biases.

I had my thing was when she came out I had made the comment to her, just don't look dorky.

I can't believe I'm saying this on your.

And, I didn't have the right to say that she has the right to wear her hair.

Or if she wears gauges in her ears and she has tattoos.

And as you can see, I'm not.

I don't like tattoos at all.

But, I mean, you know, I had in my mind what my child would look like and how my child would be.

And so I have to she is who she is.

And she is wonderful how she is.

And that was the work, the area that I had to work through.

And that was my own problem.

And that's one reason why I wrote the book, so that other people can say, because I had a parent say, well, you know, my daughter's coming out and I have to give up on my dreams for her.

Oh, and I said, like, what?

Her graduating high school and then college and getting married.

And she goes, well, and I go, all those things are going to happen.

So those dreams are still there.

I said, you have to give up what your expectations were, not what her dreams are and her expectations how you had this child.

And while they came from you.

It's not a cookie cutter approach.

You're not an assembly line, you know.

It's it's going to be this wonderful human being in all their glory.

Well, growing up in a military background, you probably had this vision, maybe of a of a military wedding down the road, marrying an officer or something like that.

With the swords cross.

I just always told her she'd find a really nice guy.

And you know that, you know, he should treat her with respect, and they should be partners, you know?

And that was really the blueprint I said, but make sure he's either going to trade or he's going to college or something, you know?

And then at one point, I woke up and I had this dream, and I told her about it, and I said, you're going to meet a tall brunet with big blue eyes, and that's who.

That's your forever person.

Let me guess.

Bailey's.

Yeah, yeah.

But when she came out, I was like, boy, I got that one wrong, you know?

Because what she can't say.

I met this guy and he goes, he's a tall, brunet blue.

And she goes, no.

And I go, okay, that's not the one.

And so I saw Bailey and about the third time I saw her was like, oh, that's your forever.

There you go.

You know, you guys, you remember your first pride of event that you attended and what was that experience like?

Let's go with you, Melanie.

It was I went to pride back when I was a kid, like in my 20s, because I had a lot of gay friends.

And back then it was all, well, let's party.

And it was a lot of fun.

But as I got more into allyship and whatever, my first one with free mom hugs was very eye opening, very powerful.

Because I didn't realize because as a parent, I love my kids no matter what.

But I never thought that there were parents out there that didn't.

And I realized how many kids.

And again I say kids like not little ones because I'm old.

How many.

They just don't have that.

And it's so heartbreaking.

So it was that spark was real.

My first pride and it has been ever since.

But that very first hug.

I don't think there are words to really describe it.

I like that word spark.

That really says a lot doesn't it.

All right.

What was your first pride event that you attended Karen.

It was 2019 here in Evansville okay.

City pride.

That was my first one.

The girls had been going to him in Denver and telling me about it.

And even Rachel said, mom you should fly out and go with us.

I said I'll go one day and I've yet to get to the Denver Pride.

So I'm hoping to go one of these days with them.

So did you get to bond with other parents?

I didn't really.

I had the free mom hub shirt on or the mama bear shirt on, and then I picked up a button.

But I hadn't connected with the team yet.

And I was just kind of running around doing my own thing.

And if a could ask for a hug, I gave them a hug and I.

But I was really blown away with the support and just genuine, just a very positive feel good about the entire event.

It's just it's it's really everybody should at least go once.

It seems like it'd be a mixture of joy and also sadness that some people don't accept these people.

And so it's heartbreaking.

That would be the hard part.

I think it is.

And, you know, for all the horrible things that are said about the community and their allies, you never hear about crime and a pride event or anything negative.

You know, there's just so much love.

Just got a lot of stuff here.

Let's just go through some of the things you have here Melanie.

You don't travel light I don't you know you never know when I'm gonna run into someone that needs something.

We've got buttons.

We've got we have the premium tags brochure.

Okay.

That tells you all about us.

Our mission, and how to get involved.

Well, how can you get involved?

Well, I can speak for Indiana.

Okay.

The easiest way is going to Facebook as even as.

Oh, look at Facebook.

And you just search free.

Mom hugs Indiana.

Follow us.

And then you can send us a message whether it's you want to get involved or you need, you know, your parents aren't coming to your wedding and you could really use a standard mom, let us know.

We'll be there.

Does that happen?

Yes.

Have you been a standard.

Well tell me about that.

It's fascinating.

I've stood in for a lot of things for kids.

Holidays at my house are random because I don't talk the talk.

I walk the walk.

And so a lot of the people that I've come across and I met, they now join our family for holidays because they don't have family that supports them.

So it's nothing for us to have 20, 30 people in our house.

It's, like you need love.

Come on.

Your husband sounds like a great guy.

He's wonderful.

I definitely got very, very lucky when it comes to husbands.

So he just.

He's come on down.

He supports me 100% no matter what.

Even when I'm doing some stupid.

He just shakes his hand and walks away.

Oh that's great.

The biggest thing though, is we.

We have stickers and buttons and pronoun pens and bracelets.

But we.

I always carry these, because we can't always be there.

And so it's called a pocket hug.

And it's just a little silver coin that says hug on it.

But the card says you are cared for.

You are loved.

Be as well as you can be.

And so that way, you know, if you're around a down moment and you don't have to be gay, I mean, straight or whatever.

Sometimes you just need a hug.

So when we can't be there.

Yeah.

The just going to feel the going.

And you just know that your loved one.

So, Karen, what advice would you give to a parent with a child who is, confused about his or her identity?

How would you go about that?

I would tell them.

I tell you what?

I was at donut Bank on the west side with a friend, and we were getting my picture taken with my book, and the lady took the raised up my phone and then lowered it and looked at me, and she said, you wrote that book?

And I was like, I was like, oh, here it comes.

And I go, yes, I did, my daughter.

And before you say anything, she goes, my son's confused.

And I said, okay, what are you telling them?

And with that, I'm over there, got my arm around her.

I go, what are you telling them?

And she said, I told them it's okay.

He doesn't have to know right now.

And it doesn't matter that I love him.

And, that's one thing about the book.

People are looking for information on how to communicate and what they need to be saying.

And we you don't have answers as parents and it is hard to find it.

The mama bears and and the free mom hugs.

These groups are really vital to parents to be able to help guide the children.

And give you support too because it's a journey for yourself and you are alone and isolated and you will as a parent, when you stand with your child you lose friends.

Oh yeah.

And my daughter that's okay.

So that's where the title of the book came from.

My daughter was telling me that when she came out she was given death threats and then she was all lost friends.

And I mean, we're driving down the road and I said, well, I've lost friends too because I support you.

And she goes, mom, I'm really sorry.

I said, don't you apologize for someone else's choice or you know what?

What they've chosen to do.

I said, you're not responsible for that.

And, I said, don't you ever, you know, apologize for as if that friendship was that important, it wouldn't be that fragile.

And so we're talking along those lines, and all of a sudden I said, my kid's gay, and I've got my hand on the wheel and go, my kid's gay, and I'm okay.

And, that's kind of when things would go wrong.

That's something I would just repeat to.

And when we kind of laugh it off.

But that was kind of what I would say and go about our business.

But now these former friends of yours, what you lose church family, you lose the support of a church.

You know, if you were going to church and if they're not inclusive.

You're in you you get uninvited to things.

And then I have well-meaning friends that saying things like when did your daughter choose to be gay.

It's not a choice.

It's no excuse me.

It's not.

And then I, you know, are the one that really gets me going.

And I had a minister friend say this about a month ago.

He said, well, my child wasn't raised to make those kind of choices.

Oh, yeah, he did.

Or he and I said, let me filter this one.

I said, I didn't put her in a lesbian boot camp on the weekends till she conformed either.

And he kind of looked at me.

I said, she was made this way by God, if you believe in God, she's made this way by God.

And God doesn't make mistakes.

And he just kind of stood there and looked at me.

So, you know, one of the biggest things that I say, not only with free mom hugs, but also in my work.

Is it's okay to not be okay.

Yeah.

It's it's okay.

I mean there's such a stigma against depression and suicidal ideations and things you don't have to be okay all the time.

But the biggest thing is when you're not okay.

Reach out to someone.

Now tell me about choices.

Oh I'm in the social work field.

I primarily work with substance abuse families.

Helping families.

Do what they need to do, to stay together.

It's very difficult.

Very hard.

Because it's not necessarily an LGBTQ family, but, I mean, all families have problems, whether it's drugs or domestic violence.

I mean, all the things.

So my job is to go in, identify their needs, and then help them to get those needs met.

So I think working in both fields is probably good for you.

It's it's very easy for people to get burnt out.

Because it's emotionally it's lot and is if you can find someone that can turn that stuff off I would love to meet them.

Because I mean I do take my work home with me a lot.

And when I see horrible things it's hard to let it go.

And I worry about kids all the time whether it's in Fremont, my work, the choices.

I just I wish that I had some magic wand to where I could just wait and fix everything, but I can't, so I just keep showing up and doing what I can to be supportive for everyone.

So, Karen, how can people get this book my kids getting and I'm okay.

They can order on Amazon.

If you're here in Evansville, you've got to have a copy in your hands right now.

You can go to k, k k KS Hair Design at 737 Park North Park Drive here in Evansville, okay.

All right.

So I guess the final message from both of you is that love is unconditional and timeless.

Is that correct?

Very much so, yeah.

And, these people need hugs, throughout their lives.

Yeah.

Not just when they come out.

Right.

All right.

Again, my thanks to Karen Edwards, author of My Kids Gay and I'm Okay, and Melanie Alders, state chapter leader at Free Hugs Indiana and temporarily free hugs Kentucky as well.

Busy lady.

And this reminder there is a 24 hour suicide in crisis.

Line 988.

Yes.

And please, please, please call it.

There is a sticker on the back of my car that says, if you're looking for a sign to stay alive, this is it.

And it has a suicide crisis line on it.

And then on the other side, it says you are safe to be you around me.

Okay.

We'll end with that.

Thanks a lot, ladies.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm David James is.

This is two main Street.