From the WNIN Tri-State Public Media Center in downtown Evansville.

I'm David James and this is Two Main Street in Lewis Carroll's Adventures of Alice in Wonderlan A young girl tumbles down a rabb encountering a host of exotic characters as she searches for a way out.

Notable among them, a grinning Cheshire Cat, often seen as the guiding spirit for A Well there's a new action adventure tale by local author Rebecca Bailey, called Burn This The 10,000 Year Plan.

And to this reader, her main cha a young girl Nadine, reminds me Confused, yet inquisitive and co And yes, there's also a cat in her journey, Mysterious Morty Rebecca Bailey writes under the the Nom de Plume of T. Harriman and her book Burn This Book was recently nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for Best Fi So Rebecca Bailey, welcome to Two Main Street.

I really enjoyed your book.

Thank you so much.

This is so exciting.

This is so Now, would you agree that are would you think I'm off base with this Alice in Wonderland co You are a eerily you are eerily on base, because when I was a little girl and I would set my I would kind of curl up in my family's library, I would just be swept away by Alice in Wonderland and The Chronicles of Narnia, cl Oh, I know it's true, but.

So I love these books so much, i that I adopted the Cheshire Cat as sort of a personal symbol And I would sign letters with, with just the grin.

Really?

Yes, and so when, fast forward just a few years and I'm an adul And I was kind of forced to adopt a cat I wasn't really crazy about.

I already had four kids and a fu job and I didn't want another cat to look after.

And I'll never forget, I'm getting some rare me time as a m And I'm and I look up and this cat is watching me curl Fluffy, tabby just like the Ches And I realized, oh, my Lord, I have my own Cheshire Cat.

And I'm sorry your totally think She, she.

So and of course now that cat is my best, you know, most beloved But with his brother.

But.

And I understand you are crazy, I am a crazy cat lady.

My main coon, who is the aforementioned tabby.

He curls up at my shoulders when I write and my little white Berman Picasso.

He warms my feet as I write.

So, yes, they are.

They're wonderful.

So, yes, I'm definitely a crazy So you had to have a cat in your and this cat's name is Morty.

Which how did you come up with M Well, I, you know, a lot of times when books, you'll encounter symbolism and you'll say, I wonder if some Is that intentional or is that an accident?

Well, with me, it's likely very much intentiona The Morty is the cat, the big fl tabby is not only a personal sym but he's also, you know, I like to put a I like to put a tabby in all of and to remind as a, you know, as sort of like a sign cat Piggy, the tabby who is always, who's always with And so he's sometimes he's literally on my m Yes.

Yeah.

I'm a cat owner.

I know that.

Yes, but Morty, if you look, some of my, some of my the languages I've st are Latin and Greek and more M-O-R-S is Latin means And in the, there's kind of a mystery throughout the book and I suddenly realized I don't want to spoil it for all Well Morty is a unique creature and Morty kind of appears and then disappears.

But that's, that's part of the d that you create in your book.

Precisely.

I think it's ironic that at a ti when censors are wanting to ban certain books during our time, the good guys in this adventure want to burn a certain book to save the world.

That’s.

Irony there.

That's right.

And so the title of the book, Burn This Book: The 10,000 Year Plan, it also, it refers to that.

But it's also my implicit challe Go ahead, burn this book.

And it's my implicit challenge, my way of rebelling against that censorship.

Mm hmm.

Now, before we talk about the human characters, now we're talking about Morty.

Now, you were the founder of the Cat Club.

Is that correct?

Oh, yes, yes.

Yes, that is me.

Were on a cat theme here okay.

You know, I love my cats so much I know how weird that sounds.

I love my cat so much that I tho what can I.

What can I do for my cats?

How can I show them that I love and I thought, you know, it's taking care of ot you know, cats out that are, you know, shivering in the cold as we speak, you know, or don't have enough to eat and, or don't have a home.

So but yes, we meet.

We are we're getting started her If, little plug here.

If you're interested in joining the Tri-State Cat Club, we're going to meet at River Cit River Kitty Cat Cafe.

Yeah, that's right.

And we're you know, we're going you know, you know, everything that the hu we're going to try to support everything, the good work that the Humane So and but if you're interested ema Welcome @t.harriman.com.

And.

Sorry.

And at the cat cafe they could help you out too if you want or if you want more information We just, we just did a story at the Cat C celebrating their 1,000th cat ad Oh, that's amazing.

A little cat named Amanda was the 1,000th adoption and that was a Two Main Street e Okay, now let's talk about the human characters in th Okay.

We, I guess the the main protagonist Nadine.

That's correct.

Nadine, a feisty young lady.

She is feisty.

Mm hmm.

But, and she doesn't really know how privileged she is.

I think she's probably the average Ameri And so a lot of what she sees as stumbles into the, into the.

Rabbit hole.

Yes, literally a rabbit hole between dimensions into.

Oh, my goodness.

All the different universes and the infinite library.

She really stands for each one o as we take in this new and unfamiliar and exciting world.

Now, Nadine, she's is, she a middle schooler in this bo She is not.

She's a high schooler.

Oh, she’s a high schooler.

She just, she's dying to get into the University of Ch Oh, okay.

So she's past middle school.

She's in high school.

That's correct.

Very awkward teenage years.

Yep.

And she had, the whole thing, the book starts with a tragic plane crash.

That's right.

And I mean, I go, We start out with this and she's the sole survivor.

So, I mean, and then then it goes from there That's right.

And all of this is Every page of the book is symbolic and allegorical.

I set up, the title of the book, of course, is Burn thi The 10,000 Year Plan and, and throughout the book, I set up the reasons we don't ha an overarching plan for survival which we really need if we are going to overcome all the massive obstacles, humanity is facing.

And it is my hope that someday you do that in, in classes, in, in classes.

And Boy Scouts and Girl Scout tr You know, you can look at the di and say, okay, this character sa How is that an obstacle to our s and what can we do to overcome i Now, Nadine has a partner in this adventure named Worth.

That's correct.

Worth is very interesting too, b Worth kind of not only goes between the different dimensions but also different genders.

That's correct.

That's right.

And, and these two have a very long h We, we should say.

And the book really has a very long history, because I started it in 2013 and I started it because of a national public rad Really?

That's correct.

Okay.

Well, what was the show?

It was Science Friday.

Okay.

Which we air.

Yes.

On Friday, of course.

Oh, yeah we air it every Friday.

All right.

Sci-Fri.

Okay.

Mm hmm So here's what's, so here's what You know, I'm a mom of four, and you know, teenagers, tweens, they eat like crazy.

And so I'm on my way to our Meij in Merrillville, Indiana, which is where I lived at the ti And I was listening to Science F and they were talking to a University of Chicago astro and they were talking about interstellar travel.

And they asked this, uh, they asked this astronomer, well why hasn't anybody ever gone?

Why, why don't we ever plan to g end of the galaxy to the other?

Long story short, and she says, ”The astronomer says with a laug that's because human beings are at making 10,000 year plans and 10,000 years is how long it would take” And mentally, I had only been listening with h because I was planning, you know, I was thinking about l okay, potato chips, pretzels.

All right.

But all of a sudden, I mean, I nearly crashed the car I'm thinking we do need a 10,000 plan.

Humanity is beset by so many pro and regardless of political opinion, creed, we can all agree that humanity i by problems on a grand scale, and we can all do something to make the world a better place toward this.

I mean, it would be amazing.

And I may and I place implicit c to people, to scientists who work on a large scale.

I place implicit challenges in the book for them to, to make these 10,000 year plans.

But I think otherwise, all of us every single one of you who's wa and listening to us, we can all do something to help on the long term.

And so the overarching yes, of c I built the book first to entert To me as a writer, that's always But the underlying reason for the book is to unite a whole generation of young readers, if not the who and get them to work towards sta toward making the world a better Which is, I believe, why I was n Now, the story involves a time t of course.

So are you a big Sci-Fi friend, Yes, I'm a huge sci-fi fan.

In fact, The, The Chicago Tribun called my book, “A thrilling mus for anyone who loves Harry Potte and The Hunger Games”.

So that kind of, so I was really pleased when I r because I thought, aw okay, I'm, I'm hitting my mar So I was glad to hear that.

Let's go let's talk about the co Okay.

Okay.

We've got it looks like the looks like the Wh is in the background and it's on fire.

And why Is it on Fire?

My, my, oh, my goodness.

I got a lot of criticism from my saying because I started the book in 20 and, and I didn't have a lot of input with the illustrator, but I said maybe you can just use the White House as a sy you know, just an institution that is you know, that is in danger of destruction and is prophetic.

Yes.

Because well, the Capitol was certainly endangered for a w Well, I didn't realize that at t I really was just using it.

The book is completely apolitica It, it does not favor any creed, but and it does not even have a curse word in it I wanted to challenge myself to Nobody curses in the book.

That's true, they don't.

They do I read the book, there's no curse words in the bo There's no curse words in the book.

Ther implications that there were people were angr Yes, exchange Yes.

heated conversation.

Yes, that was, that was very cle Now, did you have an input on; there was a picture of Morty on Yes.

And Morty looks Fluffy.

Yeah, very fluffy.

Did you have any input on that?

I did.

Really?

I did because I did not have a whole bunch of input.

And I'm kind of glad though hone because the illustrator really thought of stuff, I did not think of, the illustrator, the characters are practically leaping off the page.

And, you know, they're practical out of the frame of the book.

And so that's something that she of that I would never have thoug But when I did have a little when I did have input, I would say, make the cat cuter.

And I had so many people roll th at me just like why I made the c I'm like trust me kids love cats And sure enough, whenever I'm ou doing a signing or a reading, I'll, I'll ask kids just kind of like just curious, what do you see first?

They're like, I see the cat.

I love the cat.

The cat so cute.

That's how I was like, make the cat bigger, fluffier, c And sure enough, that's the first thing that the Now, what is the target audience of this book Rebecca Ba Yeah, well, it has a flesh kincaid grade level of grade four, and that was for marketing purpo But so but you know, technically speaking, anybody with a grade f reading level can read the book.

And because we have an ample amo studies that show that, that lower grade levels tend to tend to sell more Most Harry Potter books test out at an eighth grade leve I think probably the most forgiv stop me if you think you've hear this one before.

But, but oh, goodness.

The Old Man of the Sea.

I'm sorry to blank out here.

You mean Hemingway?

Hemingway.

I forget the name of my exemplar But Hemingway famously wrote at a fourth grade Really?

Yes.

Consistently.

Now, was his, you know, were his works unsophi Obviously, there's no way.

But but but, you know, we have all these studies that s So, yeah.

So that test out of fourth grade reading level, most a lot of my tend to be teens and people into their twenties and thirties But I've had people in their eig say they love the book as well.

So it has a wide audience and that was kind of what I hope I hope there'd be something for Hemingway love cats as well.

Yes, I have been there.

I have been at his house in Key and seen the of the six six toed That's right, the descendants.

Yeah, definitel My guest is Rebecca Bailey, she's author of, Burn This Book: The 10,000 Year Plan, nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for Fiction And you have other books Rebecca I do.

I'm really excited.

In a month or so, I will come, I will, I have a book that is coming out.

It's called All Hail Queen of th Okay.

And that's a good title.

Thanks.

And so I'm really looking forwar to that coming out.

Mr. James and I were talking about before we went on air that I grew up, I you know, my family is from the west side of Evansville, one of those German families tha that dropped anchor in the 1830s and 1840s.

And I live in Newburgh now, but but my mom and my sister and my parents are still my parents and my sister is still on the we But I've spent my whole life writing and editing.

And I started off writing romanc Really?

Yes.

But I switched to, I switched to writing young adul because it it's something that m could, Sure, sure.

could read.

Okay.

Now, let's learn more about my g a native of the Evansville area, Castle High grad.

That's right.

Did your interest in journalism start at Castle High School Rebe Well, actually, no.

Okay.

My career started in 1972.

Okay.

I was four years old and.

Okay.

Yes.

And I was, I was I still remember where I was, th I was sitting in my mother's seat at the kitchen I was on her lap and she was rea The Little Engine that Could.

Woah, little did I know how prophetic that would And I remember an okay, go ahead, laugh at me.

We were reading The Little Engin That Could and I was just transported into this world.

And I thought as a kid, that's what I want to do.

I want to write books just like And sure enough, that experience repeated itself, TikTok users, there's a shifting community whe where they try to go to another or reality.

I don't know if that's true or n but you know, when I would read, it was like I was just, I was truly in another world.

And so, yeah.

And I wanted to just keep repeat that experience.

And over time, I think I was a g when I was a kid and as a teenager.

But I wasn't a fantastic writer, but I made up my mind.

I would be an excellent writer and if you don't mind my saying and so, I determined to do, to r and to, I determined to do whatever it t to learn about how to be the bes possible.

Mm-hmm.

You know, even from like when I you know, in the single digits.

So where did you go to college?

I went to Indiana University, Bl Mm-hmm.

There I, I graduated in four yea So you don't think I was a lifetime student.

I graduated in four years with f on two bachelor's degrees.

Yeah, and apparently they don't allow that anymore.

So I think I'm one of the few in the world.

But the, the four majors were En Classical Studies, and Greek and Journalism and Linguistics.

Now, that's an interesting combi I like that, I like that.

Thank It is interesting, it is quite interesting.

And then I've got a master's degree in Linguistics.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I studied Humanities.

My master's degree in Humanities Oh, that’s interesting ; That's I just loved literature, and the history and psychology.

And it just that's I'm just fascinated by al I had to be useful.

It is.

It definitely is.

Now, were there any other writers in your family?

My father, I, my father Earl Fetche he ended his career as a superin in Southern Indiana.

But many of your readers may kno as the long time principal at Chandler Elementary which is where I went to elementary school.

His name is Earl Fetcher and yes last name I now.

And my my father would write beautiful, beautiful essays and letters and things like that.

But he and and I mean, just the that we were talking about, Joe Aaron, the late Evansville Couri my father would write things that would just bring tears to y just like Joe Aaron would.

But he never really developed th Mm- hmm.

So but, but my father, he's getting up in age now, and some of his memory has passe And yet, if you ask him anything about any of his thousands of st he remembers literally everything about them.

So it was more of his mission, lifetime mission is that it still is to be an educator.

Now, you mentioned you had four I do.

Now, what did you read to your c Oh, my goodness.

That's a good question.

I would read to them anything that I could get my hands on and my children each leave symbols throughout th Every so often I will, I would a my scientific consultant, Ko San and I would or I would ask my children, I would say, as a challenge, you know, tell me something to add to the book and I will add it in and make it look normal.

And you will always know that that is your symbol and you know that you will alway that X or Y represents you.

And so my oldest son, Jacob Bailey, who is an RA at Indiana Universi he would never want to take part And so my kids were always, so my other three kids made up of kind of a, my kids just said, “Well he'll just be a bag of shredded Oh, gosh.

I know, it is weird.

And so at one point , you'll find a bag of shredded ch and that represents my son, Jaco Andrew Bailey.

So what do they think of the boo Oh, my goodness.

I think, you know, I think they with it for so long.

I think they just I mean, it's just something they live with.

Yeah, it's just like another family member.

Are Nadine and Worth’s symbols of your children.

They are not.

Okay.

No, no, Nadine, they're both composites of characteristics.

Are you a part of Nadine?

Oh, definitely.

Definitely.

I definitely feel like part of N and but they more feel like my c And so which is why the ending w you know, was difficult for me.

But I just did not see and I tried to get out of it.

But the I just could not the world was too fully shaped b And I and I couldn't get get any get out of it any other way.

Um, so, but I know there more children for m but they're also composites of characteristics.

Nadine is a dove.

Worth is a hawk.

Yes.

And things like that.

So which enables me, again, to e this theme of what we need to do to build, to survive, as you know, for humanity to sur This is an adventure.

Yes.

I mean, it's a page turner.

Oh, It really is, I mean a lot of action in it.

And, of course, that's that's what's very important to young r And we have some reviews and this one from the Chicago Tr And you mentioned this, “Is a thrilling must read for anybod who loves Harry Potter or The Hunger Games”.

And that's a great review right there.

Yeah.

And we only have a local review from an English teacher at Harrison High School, Julie T And she says, “This engaging nov is packed full of action from beginning to end.

The characters are delightful, m appealing to a wide range of viewers, including reluctant ones”.

So you get those people that maybe don't like to read to Yeah, I wrote the action as fast as I I love the Indiana Jones movies and novels, and that was always in the back of my head.

That kind of suspense, that kind of adventure, always keep i So, yes, I was.

That's very gracious of both of those writers to say.

And even a 12 year old from Rome Lorenzo says, I'm usually a gamer, but I like the fast action of th It was fun”.

Yes.

Fun.

Can't beat that.

Well, I'll tell you what, I beli there's no such thing as writer' I think it's a covered term for a lot of different other iss Really?

I want to explore that.

Yeah.

Ye Well, there's no writer's block.

I don't believe there is such a I think it's a covered term for a lot of other, for a lot of other different iss But I think that if you, one of the things to get a full, well but one of the ways to get out of wr block is to think about what the reader needs.

Why is your reader picking up yo What do they psychologically nee And the target audience for this probably just wants to have fun.

And so whenever I would even get close to being I would just have fun writing an just try to think of just having But I don't think writer's block I think a lot of it is a lack of I'm not even going to say discip I'm going to say a lot of it is of not writing golden words.

Okay.

And, and, and as a writer, I think if you have enough pract those words just appear by thems I think a lot of it, I think a lot of writer's block not having the, just not having the training or the practice of sitting down and writing ever I always tell aspiring writers, write even if it's five minutes You, Mr. James, we were taught.

You can call me David.

David, sorry, we were talking earlier about, he talked about how he started.

He cut his journalistic teeth by obituaries and so we were talkin And so, you know, then that when you work for a newspaper, a I started off working for the Ev Press and the eventual courier, you kn that when, when you have a deadline, I mean, you don't sit there and oh, my goodness, I just don't ha you just don't have any inspirat No.

You've got an editor over th saying, I need this in ten minut And by God, if you're if the roof over your and the food on your children's is dependent on you're writing s you will write something.

It may not be, it may be good, i may be bad, but you will have so And over time that something gets better and b and better and better.

Mh-mmm.

Now, we were talking earlier abo of the historical references tha drop in the book.

Yes.

And I think that's probably obvi purposeful.

It's an, it's an educational adventure as well because they, they hear these, t terms about invasion of Normandy and Queen Isabella and they go, okay, there's a sto there behind these historical pe Yes, oh, yes.

And so hopefully that will get t to investigate these characters And we were just talking before the interview about Queen Isabella, who is kind of the Cruella de Vil in th She's the kind of the evil one.

And, and this was really an rein of Queen Isabella from Spain Cas Castile.

She's still around.

Yeah.

And causing mayhem.

That's right.

And she wants to control the wor She does.

It turns out that just like the “Everybody Wants to Rule the Wor it turns out that there are seve competing plans that people, that you just as co suggests.

It turns out that there are seve competing plans to take over the Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And we were talking about this kind of the reference to Alice in Wonderland that Quee is kind of like the Queen of Hea in that, in that novel as well.

Yes.

Which I did not realize until he said that.

One thing I have really found, especially with writing this boo the author, Umberto Eco, said that, “ Writing a book is a cosmic experience”.

And that is so true, because, um you said that not knowing how much Lewis Carroll and the, the Cheshire Cat were part of my inspiration so.

Of course, Queen Isabella from C she was, she empowered the Inqui So she had some, little evilness But then again though, she financed Columbus ex She did.

So kind of renaissance woman of She was, yes.

And for better or And she shook up medieval Europe.

So Queen Isabella, quite the cha Ah, let's see.

We have also a review from Oscar nominee Sean Astin from Stranger Things and Lord of that was nice.

He says, “Your book asks readers are you going to work together for the greater good”?

Yes.

That was very kind of him, He, he recorded that.

And I have that on my YouTube ch Mm-hmm But, yes, his wife is actually from Laport Indiana, up in.

The region.

The region.

Yeah, ri Okay.

Could you see this as a movie?

I definitely wrote it.

It sounds like a screenplay.

Oh, well.

I was reading it.

Oh, thank you so much.

I said this is a screenplay.

Oh, thank you so much.

I did indeed write it with that in mind, how would it play on the b And so you notice that the lines of dialog, they're ver they're almost soundbites.

Yeah.

So yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Really, they're they are soundbites.

Oh.

They really are.

Well thank you.

And they kind of move on to the and I can see it blocked out, to Oh, thank you so much.

Because you had these different And and you can just see, see the different the scenery be and the imagery of this, this infinite library really fascinat Oh, thank you.

Paint the picture of this.

This library for us.

Well.

Okay, so you know, they're searching for a book to Well, they are indeed.

Mm-hmm.

And The only place they can find this book is the Infinite Librar which obviously is a reference to, um, you know, the records, t the things like that and, you know, so the Infinite Librar I took my inspiration for that from one of Umberto Eco's novels And you flattered me earlier when you said it seemed like a v modern plot and that was what I was hoping f The book is full of a lot of par and when Nadine falls between, when Nadine and falls i which is the crack between the u That's the rabbit hole.

Yes, that is the literal rabbit I copied the structure of the epic of Gilgamesh when I you know, when as Nadine progresses through the, through Dis.

And of course, the Epic of Gilga is the oldest epic that we complete epic that we have on record.

So I really wanted the book to be about paradoxes.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I see a paradox right now because you're talking about classical literature.

Yes.

And then you're talking about sc fiction.

So you're.

Right, precisely.

Blending the two together.

And I think that's a that's a nice technique.

Thank you.

It was very, um, I would like to it was difficult to write the bo but it was not.

At, after you have been editing and writing, um, for nearly 50 years.

Ah, the, um, I would write and I would just, my mind would just go away to ea that I was trying to describe.

And then I would come back once my time was up for the day.

My guest is Rebecca Bailey.

She's author of Burn This Book!

The 10,000 Year Plan, and is the book available on Amazon?

It is Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

And, you know, booksellers all around.

Shout out to Your Brother’s Bookstore and, um.

And, oh, goodness.

Blue Stocking Social and which h been amazingly supportive.

We're so blessed to have them in our community.

N tell me about the notification o a Pulitzer Prize nominee for fic How did you learn about that?

I got an email.

Really?

Yeah, I had to make a phone call From, from the Pulitzer people.

Columbia, It's Columbia.

Yeah, s Columbia University?

Yeah.

So it's like, oh, gosh, I have t But yeah, it was from Columbia.e and yeah, it was it was nuts.

Did you know you were in the run I had heard talk about it.

Mm-hmm.

Because the, the nominee had, oh The nominator had told me.

It's a very large organization that nominated me.

And they, they had kind of they had kind of told me they would like to do that, but.

But so I kind of knew it was com But there's, but there is no mom Like, you know, you're opening u email, you know, saying, oh, you It didn't go to junk.

That's goo I didn't go to junk.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, it's like, okay, email from Petsmart.

Email from mom.

Email from dad.

You hear pulitzer nomination.

What?

So I bet.

It was a moment.

I bet your publisher enjoyed tha Yes.

Yes.

And so things started taking off then things really started taking off for me then.

And then the Chicago Tribune art just really got a lot of attenti Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So what's been the impact from that?

How did that turn things around?

Well, it has been, um, calls, letters.

Um, is it's really, it's been exciting.

It's amazing to I mean, it's what you plan for and you work toward your whole l I've been through some very, ver very hard times personally.

And all through that, I kept my dream of writing alive And I kept writing even when, yo people made fun of me for doing and said, “Oh, you can't make mo that or nothing's going to come And to have people wanting your and, you know, it's it's.

It's still in this surreal phase Yeah, it's still in this surreal Well, a writer has to deal with right?

Yes.

And I have had thousands of I really I couldn't even count I even count the number of rejecti A friend of mine, Mark Marimen, who writes A Indiana series, he says that, yo he knows a guy who papered in his entire bedroom in rejecti Yeah.

So what is your writing routine?

Do you set aside a certain time every day to write, Rebecca?

Well, I hate to say this because a lot probably an idea that, you know, I write candles and writing for me is some mystical experience.

And and the going somewhere else whe Okay, maybe that could qualify a because I when I write, I'm I'm I mean, it's a, it's a 3-D movie I'm in the middle of everything.

But other than that, I hate to s it, it's not real exciting.

I make myself write every single 365 days a year and, you know, sick, well, I'm going you know, at least a few minutes every day So what I do is that hopefully I've got a cup of coffee.

Usually my cats, they, you know.

Well, I've got one here, one warming m and I write and I mean, I just sit down and I mean, that's there's really nothing a terribl It's just that hell or high wate I'm going to write today and eve Yeah.

Now, what do you think about the there's plans to censor books in schools like, To Kill a Mockingbird.

I know.

We had, oh, let's see , Adventur Tom Sawyer, the classics.

Grapes of Wrath.

People want, don't want those in I don't understand that do you?

Well, and now it seems to have flared And, and I don't think this is a I don't think this is an acciden My apologies.

Because people are afraid.

And, you know, people when people are confident in themselves and their ways of life, they do not seek to get in anyone else way, anyone else's way.

But when people are afraid, when they're afraid that their culture is in danger, their way of life is in danger.

That's when they do things like censor books.

You know, God is very important and I and I believe that there's no reason to be afr because God is in control.

So I don't really understand why people would want to ban boo You know, this life is filled with ironies, of course.

And that's what writers love tha I tell that.

The irony is when you ban a book like Mouse, the sales skyrocket.

Yes.

So it backfires on the people.

Right.

That want these out, out of circ And then they had to print more Right.

I think that's a classic.

Yeah, that's true.

That is true.

Revenge is a dish best served co Definitely.

So anyway, your advice to aspiri author, do people come up to you hey, I have an idea?

What do I do?

How do I get going?

All the time.

Oh, my goodness.

All the time.

And now it's getting to where I' an email a day, you know, with s And I actually have YouTube vide that explain how to start writing a novel or a blog, or whatever you want So you can check those out on my channel.

Just search for T. Harriman, and so I've done that to kind of hopefully forestall a But really, if anybody wants to get started writing out my best advice is just to write I don't care if it's five minute And most of us, even a single mo of four like me, you know, we can find at least five minute So, so you know, that's that's really the number one ste Why the pseudonym T. Harriman?

Well, that's a great question.

Well, thank you.

That's my job.

You ask great questions.

It's actually not a small job.

That's a, that's hard to ask great questio so I, when it came time for me to select a pseudonym, I thought about, okay, well, what do I want for my first name And I thought, well, I think J.K Rowling probably was on to somet when she said that, you know, wi if you use an initial, nobody kn whether you're male or female.

And so I chose T for that reason and Harriman, the book industry is notoriously snooty.

I’m just going to come right out and say it.

And so I needed an aristocratic sounding name.

So what did I do?

I got on the Google and, and I, looked for and I looked for the name, you know, Kennedy names.

And one of them is Harriman.

Averill Harriman?

Yes.

Yes.

One of his famous aides and advi Yes, so.

Averill Harriman.

Wow.

So that's where I got the.

That's an interesting back story Oh, goodness.

I'm just all.

Wow.

I'm all, I'm, boy I got a lot of story, that's for sure.

Now, I'm, I'm curious too, Nadine, Worth and Morty.

Uh, will their adventures contin Maybe in a sequel?

They do indee Yes, good.

They do indeed continue in a seq I'm actually mostly done with it And and this one was, and this o just it's just it's really funny But I'm I'm going to, I'm going to get All Hail Queen of the Freaks and then then I'll get the seque one out of the way.

See, see, I wasn't when covid ca when covid happened, I was like, you know, this book I mean, it'd been done for a lon I was like, yeah, but I can't you know, I can't do appearances and things like that.

Sure.

So I was like, okay, well, we'll come out with this after COVID a and while covid was going on, I started working on these other So I have three, you know, in the can as actors w I have three in the can past thi Well, you got me intrigued on th The Queen of The Freaks.

Can you give me just a little bi of snippet of what that's about?

Yes, it's about a young woman who thinks she's dead.

Okay.

And she's not.

And everyone tells her that And so she thinks that she calls the queen of the freaks.

And it talks about her adventure as she goes about living and lea how to live.

So it's a lot of, I, I just real had a lot of fun with it.

Okay.

Okay.

Valparaiso University.

Yes.

You taught there?

I did 12 years What did you teach at Valpo?

Well, I taught in the communications d So interpersonal communication, communication, organizational st like that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

How did you get that gig?

Oh, goodness.

Oh, well, my husband was a pasto in, in La Porte, which is nearby Mm-hmm.

And so I just.

Nothing exciting.

I just applied to the department And Douglas Coker, who is, you k he's retired now, but, man, he's one of the best bosses in the wo hired me.

So, yeah.

Of course now, the Crusaders, the Valpo Crusaders for many yea are now the Beacons.

Yes.

What do you, what's your reactio I was surprised.

I think everyone was surprised.

Yeah, I didn't think that.

I didn't I mean, because they stayed the for so long that they say the Crusaders for I was like, I didn't think they'd ever change to be honest Mm-hmm.

So did you come across any aspiring writers at Valpo?

Quite a few.

I did, but and I actually conducted some seminars and workshops on writing there a Yeah.

So did you have something called the Second Kingdom?

What's that all about?

Oh, okay.

That's very interesting.

Yeah, I as, as, as I said earlier, I have all kinds of back stories So if you check out my social me you will see that I use the hash or I use the handle Second Kingdom quite a bit.

And this is a reference to Dante and the opening lines of his pur Okay.

So this is your classical Yes.

Yes, I speak, I speak of the Second Kingdom.

And that's kind of like a person Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So that, so that's why I that's, why you see the Second Kingdom.

Okay.

Who are you reading now?

Who am I reading now?

Oh, my goodness.

I hate to say this, but I read a lot of Choose Your Own Adventure books.

What's that?

Choose Your Own Adventure.

Excuse me.

Choose Your Own Adventure books there books where you can, that you start off along a plot and then you are faced with two or three or four decisions.

And you choose, you choose a potential ending and you go along and see what ha And, and I love those books, but they're also very useful for because now that I'm getting busier and busier and busier, even if I, even if I only have like just a few minutes to read, you know, I can get a little further on a Mm-hmm.

But, yeah, definitely Choose Your Own Adventure books.

The adventure, I mean, the writing is just amazingly fa Nobody can get a character Europe to Europe faster than those writ And so I definitely thought of t when I was writing mine.

Now at the at the conclusion of Burn this book!

The 10,000 Year Plan, there's that kind of there's a c to a young readers at the end of Can you explain that?

Yes.

Boy, it sounds terribly, terribl terribly pretentious of me to sa but part of what I'd like to do is, as an author, is redefine the author's job and to redefine what a book is.

I think that the publishing indu just getting thrashed by its com and I think we need to change th and make things more exciting and visceral for a read you know, to compete with those Hmm.

So, yeah.

Well, that's an interesting take And there's like, what's like a little quiz or I guess with the Yes, there’s quizzes.

Question, your readers.

Yes.

I'm always trying to, I'm always trying to engage my r And so one of the things I give as a as an author is I give out these littl I don't know to what extent the, the camera can get t but for example and so I have these bracelets an you can see the even the little Mm-hmm.

And which is kind of a you know, I use that recurring symbol throughout my book, but the book culminates with the, the, the, the, the motto of the plan.

And the motto is?

Yep, it is.

I have it here.

Yes.

Very good.

Thank you.

You know, I try to help out.

It's, “Do good, do the impossibl See what no one else can see and be brave”.

And so on this and so in your me and in your lives.

Dear listeners, dear viewers, dear readers, you will find times in your life where you need to be, you know, “Do good, do the impos see what no one else can see and be brave”.

And so the first line is on this Mm-hmm.

And the second line, the second line will be on the s round bracelets I will come up w Is this part of your religious b To do good?

I mean, to get this message acro Yes, absolutely.

Because when you, you'll notice that the first lin of the plan’s motto is just to d So, I mean, and the reason for t is that when we think about a 10 plan, we think, oh, my gosh, som so monumental.

And if you really try to think a it's very difficult to conceptua very difficult to wrap your mind And so with the first line of the of th I really just want to boil it do to something that is very, very And the first thing is to just t do something good.

If everyone mindfully does somet you know, we'll, we'll make it as a species.

We will.

And then and then.

But.

But.

Long story short.

Sorry.

Well, Nadine, finally come to the realization that she's going to do good no m no matter what the odds are.

Right.

She is on a mission to do good.

And the adventure begins.

That's right.

Rebecca Bailey, this has been a lot of fun.

Oh, thank you for having me.

This has been a blast.

Her pen name is T. Harriman.

The book is Burn This Book!The 10,000 Year Plan.

A Pulitzer Prize nominee for Fic Thanks, Rebecca.

Thank you.

Continued success with your writing career.

Much appreciated.

I'm David James and this is Two Main Street presented by Jeffrey Kim Wren and the Berger Wealth S Team at Baird Private Wealth Management.