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Well the congressional map controversy is over or is it?

We're gonna find out on this edition of Donnybrook.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Let's meet our panelists starting with the media veteran herself Wendy Weiss along with Sarah Fenske.

She's sitting in for Bill McClellan who's taking the week off.

Sarah of course from St.

Louis Magazine, the 314 podcast and her daily newsletter.

From the Post-Dispatch we welcome Joe Holleman and from the St.

Louis American Alvin Reid.

Thank you all for being here.

We're gonna start with you Sarah.

What a strange trip this has been with two Supreme Court rulings at the federal level and then some serious action at the state level with the Supreme Court basically telling the Secretary of State Denny Hoskins that it was going to hold him in contempt of court if he didn't put in place the 2022 congressional map instead of the 2025 reconfigured map.

Now we've been going back and forth on this one for a long time but as it turns out the old map will be in place and it turns out also that primary voters in August may have voted for candidates that they won't have an opportunity to vote for in November.

It's very strange.

Yeah very strange, a big mess.

I think we can all just blame Denny Hoskins and I'm sure there are some people who'd argue with that but he really created this mess by dragging out this referendum.

You know they had the signatures, they wanted to appeal this thing as fast as they could.

I think he thought if he drug this out it would just take on its own momentum.

It would be too late to stop it.

We'd have to use this new Trump back map and the US Supreme Court said uh -uh you can't do that the people do get to vote on this.

So I think Democrats are jubilant right now.

I think a lot of people are just really glad that oh it turns out you can't get away with that kind of tricks like there is still the rule of law in this country.

Well that was the part that I just kind of found disturbing.

Yeah.

In that I said like so we have got at least two people including the Attorney General of the state of Missouri who basically said like never mind the state Supreme Court we'll find a federal judge who within minutes of the Missouri Supreme Court to see no decision so so now you can just call somebody up on the phone and say hey I need an injunction Mr.

Federal Judge or let me just write it out on a piece of paper here.

So obviously this had to be planned and it's just like and I'm not trying to call the federal judge this but to behave like but to behave like a partisan stooge.

I would.

And you're a federal judge.

It's alarming to me.

What's really funny is I think in the beginning everybody was kind of caught up on the mid-decade census you know it's like why are we doing this now how and that apparently was not that was that was not the end of this you know you would have thought that that would have been enough to quash this in one way or another but I think Sarah is absolutely right that once Hoskins was able to kind of fend off no I you know I don't want to answer any of your questions and I don't want to you know turn these signatures in he thought that okay we've got a right-leaning high court in Washington this will be a walk they will go along to get along or get along to go along and and then no Kavanaugh says no.

The only part that I found interesting was is that Kavanaugh who was supposed to be the partisan stooge when he was appointed to the Supreme Court and the partisan stooge is appointing by Republican governors on the state Supreme Court were actually the ones making Democrats happy so I thought that was something that needed to be pointed out but you know there's a point like what in a boxer in a fight where you just throw in the towel because the fighter is always gonna keep getting back up okay no really I'm fine you got to have somebody in charge you go we're good stop and apparently there was nobody in the corner well I mean yeah that's exactly right and I think that's why for a long time some of these officials are gonna be remembered as I don't know if the word partisan stooge is there but I think they're gonna be known for malfeasance because the law is so darn clear that if the General Assembly if the General Assembly passes a law the people have the right to collect signatures and suspend the law until they vote on it on its repeal in the referendum and it was just very clear but people like Attorney General Hannaway Secretary of State Hoskins and the federal judge Stephen Clark I I think that they will go down in history as just having the election because I think there'll be some people are still be very upset about everything that went down through at least November the 3rd I would say that the only person I think in danger of losing their seat by the ballot box would be Danny Hoskins because I think you could run a now you could run a moderate Republican against him who would probably beat him in a primary I'm not sure many Republicans are gonna disagree I think I think we overrate how long people are people think about because I've had people come up to me a week or so before the election they'll go hey what about a political writer with the post yet who's running for governor I mean this idea that we remember because it's our job to remember I think people remember like the William Webster's the Kim Gardner's the Cory Bush's the Steve Stengers you went out to someone and said second injury fund nobody it would hardly be anybody who'd go other states have been able to they've been able to do this they've been able to redistrict in the same way but but what was different about Missouri obviously was this petition drive right and and the ability to get these petitions through so are these these signatures through so it's it's just a quagmire and remember you you do not they needed 150 they got double that right that doesn't happen unless Republicans are signing the petitions too so I would take that into account that's what I'm saying that Danny Hoskins and I'm not saying a Democrat could beat him the next time he runs but I am saying a Republican to beat him in the prime we get back to just making illogical partisan stooge maps every 10 years like we used to I mean that was only my videos everybody go well this is gerrymandering it's always gerrymandering it's true this isn't the right time to gerrymander well it was also denying the people who collected the signatures their right to put the measure on and now it's on the ballot well it's weird Wendy I want to ask you about what's going on in Ferguson the data center which was a 20 billion dollar project is back in front of town moms and dads now and the developer whose name is under first name I can't get the to confuse him he's Jim under the he's the trial attorney who really is not a developer but he's gonna have the biggest development in the history of st.

Louis 20 billion dollars in Ferguson gonna get 1.8 billion dollars in tax breaks I think and he's gonna give seven and a half million dollars to a local charity is this gonna fly this is a data center on the old Emerson campus that's that's the carrot apparently who knew seven and a half million dollars to a community development organization that that is what has that is what is reenergized this project it's sort of made everybody else quiet about it they're entitled to do whatever they obviously whatever they want to do and whatever they have the will to do but I'm I'm still I'm just sort of missed if I want to know more about the organization that's gonna receive the seven and a half million dollars and I want to know why does a data center need 1 .5 billion dollars in tax breaks like these should be things where at this point there's such a demand for them and nobody can manage to get them passed through city councils all over the nation and you know supposedly they just we need them chugging over time to fill the demand but this one needs massive tax breaks and can only put a measly seven and a half million dollars in a fund to help the community it seems so backwards I've been asking that question about football and baseball stadiums why do these billionaires need public money well the problem is the public or the public bodies that govern are willing to give it up yeah but the public loves baseball nobody nobody is clamoring saying oh my gosh I really want a data center next to my subdivision nobody I think the point I'm trying to make is politicians love to give these things away it doesn't cost them anything on the front end and it shows that they're doing something like moving their jobs for doing this I mean we saw this earlier and you know what a new poll came out this morning from SLU YouGov where they looked at a bunch of things including like state political actors but they looked at data centers and data centers were already wildly unpopular they're even more unpopular now than they were six months ago like the public is totally against this stuff it's the 7.1 million dollars which is a drop in the bucket right so what I would ask for if you were gonna you know I was gonna change my opinion Jim Dandy I was you got to come up with some more more money than that and it's got a flow to a lot more places instead of one community development organization I'm just fearful that Ferguson won't get what it deserves unless it demands what it deserves and it sounds like they're capitulating a little bit too easily wouldn't it be nice to know who the AI backer is I think that's been the single biggest problem environmental aside and I understand there are concerns of that but I think the one thing that's been the real sticking point for me is the people developing them don't want to just step forward and go hi my name's Bob or Joe or Donna and we're gonna build this here they're trying to be very secretive about it which to me is like automatically makes me no kidding no good point well and here we have a first-time developer I would be shocked if he already has a client lined up this is something he wants to do on spec try to get the best deal out of the Ferguson City Council that he can and then flip it for a bunch of money and what what I think is really kind of interesting the closer we get to the election that I think that is where the story is gonna be told because I think that's part of this flock story about how people are more up in arms about the flock cameras and they are about the data centers well you what you mentioned that survey and speaking of the governor down to 38% favorability lowest he's been says he's been in office I'm along with these maps and all that that that data center thing is part of that also yeah Sarah I want to ask you about the county jail in downtown Clayton the latest report I believe in the st.

Louis Post-Dispatch is that it's leaking sewage through the ceilings it's going into the cells and it's going into the prosecutor's office the public defender's office some of the judges offices and it's pretty disgusting and it's a very unhealthy part of the problem is that the inmates there are purposely using mattresses and towels to clog up the toilets the reason for that we're told is that they're tired of sitting in their cells for 23 hours a day some of those guys are in there for five years they never see sunshine no opportunity I think they got to start all over with a brand new jail I don't know if it's state funds federal funds local funds but it's just not working out it's overcrowded and I think that those inmates are literally going crazy in their cells I mean I'd go crazy if I was in a room for 23 hours a day that smelled like sewage and I couldn't get any fresh air I mean it would be horrible just reading this story the Post-Dispatch did a great job on this story very disturbing something that was very disturbing in this story is that this jail is apparently only 28 years old and they're talking like well it's 28 years old it's reached the end of its functional life I'm like can we not build things in America anymore and just doesn't the county know how to maintain things and somebody said it's been a hard 30 years well I agree but you know there's a couple options here one that they talked about is they could put in I think 36 million dollars to get this problem fixed up and so whether it's 36 million dollars or whether it's a whole new jail I think this needs to be the number one thing for the new county executive when they take over in January that they need to have a frank talk with the voters and push forward some sort of plan to deal with this because we cannot continue under these conditions and I think they'll have to because those are not popular issues right let's raise your taxes to make sure that inmates in a jail are less uncomfortable I won't say comfortable you're not comfortable in a jail but those things don't have a great track record for passing it's not like passing a library tax or a park tax so I think they need to come up with some money somewhere so we'll find out when Jake Zimmerman takes over as county executive or Dennis Hancock or Dennis Hancock whether or not there is that money there in the county or if indeed as they said we're we're in deficit well I think it's gonna have to be a court order I don't think there's any chance that the voters in st.

Louis County are gonna raise their own taxes so that they can improve the conditions for those who are incarcerated this is there's no love for the incarcerated I would I know I sound like that but I would say this hmm the city needs a new jail and the county needs a new jail seems to me right this need one we could be better together if only they had something I don't know like a long haul Street where there was a bunch of land now it's just empty land so maybe but you maybe I mean is there is is there a law that says you could not have a joint you wanna County a mega jail I mean that's just oh I really hope this isn't the place where we decide to be better together I do think you know law enforcement is where I would be maybe no also I'm kidding aside something will be done because if I'm a prosecutor of a large American County and my office smells like raw sewage yes that's not happening I'll well I'll threaten to throw well we keep we keep talking about how they can't find correction officials they can't find guards well now we know why they can't find guards who wants to work in a place that in August or September in st.

Louis well and quite frankly even before those problems security and who's how long did these problems go officer yeah and work with those people even under the most perfect circumstances that seems to be a depressing job I just can't I think you're right there's 28 years old Bush Stadium was 40 years old we needed a new stadium I mean one of the reasons when I was in Illinois one of the reasons they would go to small towns to build prisons was because those people wanted a job wait Danville Illinois while I was there medium security prison opened up they had open house I worked in Chester Menard correction Elvin from the jail to camping the Missouri Department of Conservation is going to charge those who camp on the I guess the unsettled the on the terrain that it's it's Missouri owned property but it doesn't have nice facilities or anything it's just you can camp on it here to four it's been free but now it'll cost a whopping $5 for five nights for up to 10 people so that's $5 total I think that's very reasonable actually I think it's way too low it should be $75 I go ahead I wonder why you hate America independence I mean and camping but we have not had a fee for this I think you were just trying to extort money because there is no reason for these people to have to pay this $5 you wouldn't just tack up $5 for a fishing or hunting license without you know having a real discussion about it so I think it's separate a number of complaints and problems that have been reported quadrupling over the Lord over the last what six months or so year it was hot outside but anyway I know there's litter and other problems and the campers are causing these problems and they're sometimes not leaving so I'm gonna live a camper and I have to pay $5 I think listen to yourself to myself it was nothing nothing $5 more than nothing is like $5 it's finitive well I think one of the one of the arguments and I agree with this case the state of Missouri Missourians have already paid for that land that is our land it's not nobody else well maybe we can get some people I don't know what some inmates like to go clean up things I like your style you know what I'm saying and then we do that but the idea and and people have to understand this is not the campsites with the electrical and the water hookups right right those are run by the Department of Natural Resources this is the primitive it's called primitive camping rough camping raw camping they usually have a flattened area and maybe a fire pit so the fires don't get out of the way and that's it sounds so you want to charge $5 run tag on five bucks more to the RV dollars big campers I can't believe we're having this $5 is a pack of gum anymore practically I mean it's not even a coffee yeah I mean speaking of everybody being broke but I feel like all of our governments are broke cuz we're like oh you can't tax that you can't charge for that we can't raise this tax meanwhile inflation's through the roof it's like how do we think we're gonna keep this state going what my gouging people for five last night I was at Panera with a woman from Ukraine and she's trying to stay here she might be kicked out of the country October 19th and she told me to buy a work authorization permit which is a little card you keep in your wallet she's a veterinarian she had to pay like 400 to 500 dollars that's so that she can work I mean in the Ukraine or no and here in the state well who's charging that the federal government well the United States service people for stuff they shouldn't be charging them for and I agree what I'm saying is that's expensive for people coming from more foreign countries all right five dollars who's next I think it's you Joe there's a guy from Afghanistan who was helping the United States Army back in the first decade of this century he came to the United States I think in 2014 and lately he's been accused by the feds of cohorting with terrorists and so now he's detained but he's not being given a trial or a chance to hire a lawyer or confront his accusers or basically have any rights do you agree with that do I agree with them holding him no no no not denying him trial well they said they were still going to follow the letter of the law is what the ice statement said in the story that I read and what I would like to know is should he have a trial like everybody else accused of a crime well he was arrested like three weeks ago yes well let's see where this goes first I mean I think there's some questions here that you can't put aside is where they're saying we have this proof the federal government saying of him being in contact with terrorist organizations we have him traveling with equipment like a rangefinder and electrical cables to go there well I mean I dangerous it could be what anniversary are we coming up on Charlie yeah but they didn't use rangefinders and binoculars and cables they didn't know we're in the process they use that I know of well okay I saw those things are not illegal why not let him hire an attorney so he can defend himself that's all he's asking it is the American way I do know that like they the terrorism and before all this ice stuff this would have got you locked up regardless of who the president is or what the philosophy is this same thing would have sent you to jail and ultimately you would have had a trial but I'm not excusing any ice behavior whatsoever but this sounds like this is just like we got to get this guy off the street and and and and my compliments to the st.

Louis public radio reporters because did an outstanding job with this with this this article I kept waiting though for the oh this poor guy he really sounds like he's as innocent as a little lamb and I never had that moment and because the FBI and because ice because they are charged with keeping us safe I'm gonna give the FBI and ice the benefit of the doubt because the the fact that his superior in the military who was raving about his service in Afghanistan as a translator but it up completely when presented with facts that we are not privy to flipped the script and said no I can't that he's not privy to he's not allowed to present evidence that would acquit he has refused to comment on allegations yes he has I think look I think the problem here is if you read again the excellent job that Brian Munoz did it does look like a very damning case but I also it always does I also get where Charlie is coming from because ice has no credibility with me right now they have made up stuff they have like to snatch people off the street who should have never been snatched and so I get that skepticism of even with some of the facts you just described where I'm like oh this doesn't sound like the guy that we need to put our energy into defending I do wonder because I can't trust a word they say I don't forget even Nazi criminals the worst of the worst had trials okay all right in this particular climate though I thought it was really I thought it was pretty deft of him to say this might have had something to do with my presence at an anti-trump rally because then you're gonna incite all the people I know this kind of because I do know people the Federal Bureau of Investigation is functioning like it used to and they are the one thing in America that you could kind of still trust oh yeah yeah like how they framed all those guys in Boston back 30 years we have killed 250 innocent people in the Caribbean by launching missiles into their boats I'm talking about the I've talked about the FBI and how they function they're still like I said regardless of ice and regardless of Trump they are the one organization that is actually out there so like okay what well you know what we're doing we're keeping the country safe and it's not about Republican Democrat ice illegal alien we're the one functioning body never mind why do we even have courts why have court the man has been in custody for three weeks wait what do you want a trial they're gonna send him away here's the thing Charlie my point is my point is I don't trust ice at all I trust the FBI well but here's the thing is too is when it comes to the situation with ice I'm sure that you would believe that if anybody said ice never makes a mistake you think that's insane that's silly to think that ice always makes a mistake that they're never right is equally as that's why that's why I want to see so the both sides can be presented you want it within three weeks no no I want it period well at some point nobody's he's not going to have a job they take individuals and they send them away because they're ill they're here illegally no not in this case this guy is he suspect a terrorism and they have some literally suspend habeas corpus being against AI is like being in favor of horses over cars it's happening no matter what that from Kerry McGill of st.

Albans Missouri yeah and we heard from Tom Torak of Oakland a private company collecting license plate data on citizens is an awful idea there's no way our government should allow this to happen Brett T shot of st.

Louis chimed in st.

Louis public schools should completely rethink their government structure it's too big geographically for effective and efficient oversight divide the districts into five or seven sub districts you can write us care of 9 PBS 6 3 1 0 8 don't forget those emails Donnie Brooke at 9 PBS org on social media it's hashtag Donnie Brooke STL listen to us on your favorite podcast source wherever you are and make sure you listen to our program last call it's on the Donnie Brooke YouTube channel this week we're going to talk about among other things the state assigning a letter great to a letter grade to school districts thanks to Sarah for sitting in for Bill who will be back next week no he'll be back in two weeks thank you for joining us we'll see you hopefully next week Donnie Brooke is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS