>> Sreenivasan: ON THIS EDITION FOR SUNDAY, JUNE 10: PRESIDENT TRUMP AND KIM JONG UN ARRIVE IN SINGAPORE AHEAD OF THEIR HISTORIC MEETING AS A CONTENTIOUS G-7 SUMMIT ENDS WITH A CLAIM OF "BETRAYAL."

NEXT ON PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND.

FROM THE TISCH WNET STUDIOS AT LINCOLN CENTER IN NEW YORK, HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Sreenivasan: GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND NORTH KOREAN LEADER KIM JONG UN ARE NOW IN SINGAPORE, JUST HOURS AWAY FROM THEIR HISTORIC MEETING.

ENEMIES FOR DECADES, THE TWO COUNTRIES' LEADERS HAVE NEVER MET FACE-TO-FACE.

AND THIS ALL HAPPENS JUST AS THE PRESIDENT HAS ADDED NEW TENSION TO RELATIONS WITH THE LEADERS OF THE HISTORICALLY FRIENDLY NATIONS IN THE G-7.

SECURITY IS INTENSE.

THERE IS NO ACCESS TO THE ACTUAL SUMMIT SITE, BUT THE WORLD IS WATCHING AS NEWSHOUR FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT NICK SCHIFRIN REPORTS FROM SINGAPORE.

>> Reporter: TONIGHT, PRESIDENT TRUMP LANDED IN SINGAPORE'S HUMIDITY, HOPING TO REPLACE THE FROSTINESS OF THE G-7 MEETING, BY MAKING HISTORY WITH ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST ISOLATED DICTATORS.

A FEW HOURS EARLIER, KIM JONG UN'S BLACK, BULLETPROOF LIMO ESCORTED HIM THROUGH THE SHUT- DOWN STREETS OF THIS CITY/STATE.

AMID A MEDIA FRENZY, KIM JONG UN ARRIVED IN HIS DOWNTOWN SINGAPORE HOTEL WITH A MASSIVE CONVOY.

KIM SPENT SOME TIME OVERSEAS WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER, BUT HE'S NEVER TRAVELED THIS FAR AS NORTH KOREAN LEADER.

AND HE'S NEVER TRAVELED WHILE THE WORLD WAS WATCHING.

EVERYWHERE KIM WENT, THE TOURISTS, AND THE CAMERAS, FOLLOWED.

AN EVENING DRIVE THROUGH SINGAPORE, WITH A RUNNING ESCORT FROM A PHALANX OF BODYGUARDS, AND A MEETING WITH SINGAPORE PRIME MINISTER LEE HSE LOONG.

SIX MONTHS AGO, KIM HAD NEVER MET A SINGLE FOREIGN LEADER.

HE'S MET A HANDFUL JUST IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

WHICH IS WHY MANY BELIEVE EVEN BEFORE THE SUMMIT BEGINS, KIM HAS GAINED HIS COVETED LEGITIMACY.

BOB MENENDEZ IS THE SENIOR DEMOCRAT ON THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE.

>> TO THE EXTENT THAT KIM JONG UN HAS ALREADY GONE FROM INTERNATIONAL PARIAH TO BEING NORMALIZED INTERNATIONALLY, YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT HE'S HAD SOME SUCCESS HERE.

>> Reporter: THE SUMMIT WILL HAPPEN HERE, OFF THE ISLAND OF SINGAPORE ON THE ISLAND OF SENTOSA, KNOWN AS A TOURIST'S PLAYGROUND WITH GIANT STATUES SPROUTING FROM THEME PARKS.

AND AT THIS SENTOSA HOTEL WHERE THE SUMMIT WILL TAKE PLACE, ONLY A SMALL SIGN HINTING AT THE SITE'S CRITICAL IMPORTANCE.

( APPLAUSE ) FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS, THE U.S. AND NORTH KOREA HAVE ALTERNATED NEGOTIATIONS, AND THREATS OF WAR OVER NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM.

>> THEY WILL BE MET WITH FIRE AND FURY LIKE THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN.

>> (Translated): THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES IS WITHIN RANGE OF OUR NUCLEAR WEAPONS, AND A NUCLEAR BUTTON IS ALWAYS ON MY DESK.

>> Reporter: BUT DURING DECADES OF DIPLOMACY, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A MEETING BETWEEN A SITTING U.S. PRESIDENT AND A NORTH KOREAN LEADER.

NORTH KOREA'S ALSO NEVER HAD A MISSILE THAT COULD REACH AS FAR INTO THE U.S. OR A NUCLEAR WEAPON AS VIABLE OR AS LARGE AS IT DOES TODAY.

U.S. OFFICIALS ADMIT THEY STILL DON'T KNOW WHETHER KIM IS WILLING TO GIVE UP HIS NUCLEAR WEAPONS, OR WHAT THE U.S. WILL HAVE TO EXCHANGE.

YESTERDAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID HE WOULD KNOW INSTANTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, AND THAT IT WAS NOW OR NEVER.

>> KIM JONG UN WANTS TO DO SOMETHING GREAT FOR HIS PEOPLE AND HE HAS THAT OPPORTUNITY AND HE WON'T HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY AGAIN.

IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE THERE AGAIN.

>> Reporter: ALSO ON THE TABLE: ENDING THE KOREAN WAR, 65 YEARS AFTER THE ARMISTICE.

WITH SO MUCH ON THE LINE, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DREAMED BIG, BUT YESTERDAY, TRIED TO LOWER EXPECTATIONS.

>> BUT AT A MINIMUM I DO BELIEVE AT LEAST WE'LL HAVE MET EACH OTHER.

WE WILL HAVE SEEN EACH OTHER.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE LIKED EACH OTHER AND WE'LL START THAT PROCESS.

>> Reporter: WHICH MEANS, 36 HOURS BEFORE IT BEGINS, THE ONLY CERTAINTY ABOUT THIS SUMMIT IS THE UNCERTAINTY.

>> Sreenivasan: AND NICK SCHIFRIN JOINS US NOW FROM SINGAPORE.

FIRST OF ALL, WHY SINGAPORE?

>> HARI, IN PART BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR BOTH SIDES, THEY CONSIDERED THE D.P.R.K., THE SPACE BETWEEN SOUTH KOREA AND NORTH KOREA, THAT HAD JUST HELD A SUMMIT BETWEEN NORTH KOREAN LEADER AND SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT KIM JAE UN, MOON JAE-IN RATHER, AND SO THAT WASN'T ACCEPTABLE, IT HAD TO BE REGIONAL SO THEY CONSIDERED MONGOLIA, WHICH DIDN'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, BEIJING WAS OUT OF THE QUESTION FOR THE AMERICANS, AND SO SINGAPORE IS CONSIDERED NEUTRAL.

THEY HAVE HAD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE NORTH KOREANS FOR OVER FOUR DECADES, OBVIOUSLY A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S. AS WELL AND ITS SAFE HERE, HARI, THIS ISLAND OFTEN HOSTS SUMMITS, THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WAS JUST HERE ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, SO BOTH SIDES FELT COMFORTABLE COMING HERE.

>> Sreenivasan: I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN THERE A LITTLE WHILE, WHAT IS THE SECURITY SITUATION LIKE?

>> WELL, WE CAN GET AROUND PRETTY EASILY.

WE CAN EVEN GO TO THE ISLAND WHERE THIS SUMMIT WILL TAKE PLACE, WHICH IS ABOUT KIND OF A 15-MINUTE DRIVE TO THE SOUTH OF US AND WE CAN DRIVE AS YOU SAW IN THAT PIECE RIGHT UP TO WHERE KIM JONG-UN DROVE INTO THE HOTEL.

SO RELATIVELY IT IS OKAY TODAY.

BUT EVERYBODY IS WARNING THAT THE CITY WILL BASICALLY BE ON LOCKDOWN WHENEVER THE PRESIDENT IS MOVING OR WHATEVER, KIM JONG-UN HIMSELF IS MOVING, SO WE SEE A LOT OF SECURITY OUTSIDE OF THE HOTELS RIGHT NOW, BUT REALLY THE CITY OUTSIDE OF THESE LITTLE POCKETS IS PROCEEDING NORMALLY.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE?

OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON THE MOMENT WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND KIM JONG-UN ARE IN THE SAME ROOM OR IN THE SAME PLACE SPEAKING OR MEETING BUT BEFORE THAT, AFTER THAT?

>> SO RIGHT NOW, WHAT ALL THE U.S. IS SAYING THERE WILL BE SOME WORKING GROUPS TOMORROW, LED BY SUNG KIM, WHO IS THE AMBASSADOR TO THE PHILIPPINES BUT HAS BEEN BROUGHT INTO THIS PROCESS BECAUSE OF HIS LONG HISTORY OF DEALING WITH THE NORTH KOREANS, HE WILL MEET WITH HIS COUNTERPART TOMORROW MORNING, SINGAPORE TIME, WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO SEE THAT BUT AT LEAST WE KNOW IT IS HAPPENING.

TOMORROW AFTERNOON LOCAL TIME, THE U.S.

PROMISES SOME KIND OF BRIEFING ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE GOING, PRESUMABLY AND A BIT OF A PREVIEW FOR HOW TUESDAY IS GOING.

BUT, HARI ON THE LIST, ON THE SCHEDULE FOR WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TUESDAY, THERE IS A BIG T.B.D.

ON THE SCHEDULE.

WE KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL MEET WITH KIM JONG-UN IN THE MORNING BUT AFTER THAT IT IS REALLY UP TO THE PRESIDENT AND BOTH SIDES, AND THAT REALLY SHOWS THE KIND OF NEGOTIATING THAT THE PRESIDENT INTENDS TO DO HERE.

WE HEARD HIM IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, BASICALLY SAY, I AM GOING TO KNOW IN THE FIRST FEW SECONDS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND THAT REVEALS A SUBSTANTIVE POINT FROM THE U.S. OFFICIALS THAT I TALKED TO, THEY SAY IF THEY BELIEVE THAT KIM JONG-UN IS SERIOUS ABOUT FINALLY DENUCLEARIZING AND FINALLY TURNING THE PAGE ON 25 YEARS OF STRATEGY THAT THE NORTH KOREANS HAVE EFFECTIVELY AVOIDED DENUCLEARIZATION IF KIM JONG UN IS SERIOUS SUDDENLY ABOUT THAT, THIS THIS SUMMIT WILL PROCEED AND BE SEEN AS A SUCCESS BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT WILL ALLOW IT TO BE A NO GO FORWARD, BUT IF THEY SENSE THAT KIM JONG-UN ISN'T AS SERIOUS OR IS GOING TO REPEAT SOME OF HIS SAME MISTAKES FROM THE PAST, FRANKLY THEY SAY THEY ARE PREPARED TO WALK OUT AND THAT'S WHY IT IS T.B.D., U.S. OFFICIALS ADMIT THEY SIMPLY DON'T KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO GO.

>> Sreenivasan: NICK, SHORT OF TOTAL DENUCLEARIZATION, WHAT ELSE COULD BE ACHIEVED HERE?

WHAT ELSE IS ON THE TABLE?

>> I THINK WHAT IS ON THE TABLE IS THE DEFINITION OF DENUCLEARIZATION AND THE DEFINITION OF PEACE.

SO DENUCLEARIZATION, IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS THE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR HAS COME OUT AND SAID, WE WANT INSTANT DENUCLEARIZATION, WE WANT EFFECTIVELY TO PUT THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON SHIPS AND TAKE THEM OUT.

THEY HAVE NOW ADMITTED THAT THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE AND SIMPLY NOT FEASIBLE.

AND SO THEY ARE TALKING NOW ABOUT HOW LONG DENUCLEARIZATION TAKES AND THE STEPS THAT NORTH KOREA HAS TO TAKE IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT IT IS SERIOUS ABOUT DENUCLEARIZATION.

AND THEN THE DEFINITION OF PEACE.

WHAT DOES NORTH KOREA GET IN RETURN FOR THAT DENUCLEARIZATION AND WHAT STAGES DOES THAT COME IN?

CERTAINLY SOME OF THE THINGS THEY WILL BE TALKING ABOUT, SANCTIONS RELIEF, THAT IS REALLY WHAT NORTH KOREA WANTS, A RELIEF FROM SOME OF THE SANCTIONS THAT HAVE INCREASED DRAMATICALLY IN THE LAST YEAR.

TALKING ABOUT A LONG-TERM NORMALIZATION, PERHAPS EVEN AN EMBASSY IN PYONGYANG.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ENDING THE KOREAN WAR AND ALSO REMOVING NORTH KOREA FROM THE STATE SPONSOR LIST OF TERRORISM, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WILL BE TRADED AND AGAIN IT JUST SHOWS THAT THE U.S.

DOES NOT KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO GO.

IT DOES NOT KNOW EXACTLY THE DEFINITIONS EITHER OF PEACE OR DENUCLEARIZATION, JUST ABOUT 36 HOURS BEFORE THE SUMMIT BEGINS.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, NEWSHOUR'S NICK SCHIFRIN JOINING US FROM SINGAPORE TONIGHT AND HE WILL BE REPORTING THERE ALL WEEK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS, HARI.

>> Sreenivasan: READ MORE ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT FROM THE HISTORIC MEETING BETWEEN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND KIM JONG UN.

VISIT pbs.org/newshour.

>> Sreenivasan: LAST NIGHT, WHILE FLYING TO SINGAPORE, PRESIDENT TRUMP DIVERTED ATTENTION FROM HIS UPCOMING HISTORIC SUMMIT USING TWITTER TO SEND ANGRY MESSAGES ABOUT THE G- 7 SUMMIT HE HAD JUST LEFT.

MR. TRUMP TWEETED THAT HE WOULD NOT "ENDORSE" A JOINT- COMMUNIQUE RELEASED AT THE END OF THE SUMMIT.

AND ATTACKED CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU FOR BEING "VERY DISHONEST AND WEAK."

IN A NEWS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY, THE CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER HAD JUST ANNOUNCED THAT CANADA WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH RETALIATORY TARIFFS, IN REACTION TO PROPOSED U.S. TARIFFS ON CANADIAN STEEL AND ALUMINUM.

THE PRESIDENT'S TWEETS WERE PERSONAL.

HE SAID TRUDEAU "ACTED SO MEEK AND MILD" DURING THE G-7 MEETINGS "ONLY TO GIVE A NEWS CONFERENCE AFTER I LEFT SAYING THAT 'U.S.

TARIFFS WERE KIND OF INSULTING,' AND HE 'WILL NOT BE PUSHED AROUND.'"

THIS MORNING, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER LARRY KUDLOW SAID THAT TRUDEAU'S ACTIONS WERE A BETRAYAL, AND THE PRESIDENT WAS RIGHT TO PUSH BACK.

>> HE IS NOT GOING TO PERMIT ANY SHOW OF WEAKNESS ON THE TRIP TO NEGOTIATE WITH NORTH KOREA, NOR SHOULD HE.

>> Sreenivasan: WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER PETER NAVARRO ADDED TO THE ATTACKS, CALLING MR. TRUMP'S ATTENDANCE AT THE G- 7 A "COURTESY" AND ACCUSED THE CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER OF ACTING IN "BAD FAITH."

>> THERE'S A SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL FOR ANY FOREIGN LEADER THAT ENGAGES IN BAD FAITH DIPLOMACY WITH PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP AND THEN TRIES TO STAB HIM IN THE BACK ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR.

>> Sreenivasan: SENATORS FROM BOTH PARTIES WEIGHED IN ON MR. TRUMP'S DECISION.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR JOHN McCAIN TWEETED: "TO OUR ALLIES: BIPARTISAN MAJORITIES OF AMERICANS REMAIN PRO-FREE TRADE, PRO-GLOBALIZATION AND SUPPORTIVE OF ALLIANCES BASED ON 70 YEARS OF SHARED VALUES.

AMERICANS STAND WITH YOU, EVEN IF OUR PRESIDENT DOESN'T."

DEMOCRATIC SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN ALSO CRITICIZED THE DECISION NOT TO ENDORSE THE G-7 AGREEMENT.

>> AND IT SEEMS TO ME NOT TO SIGN A STATEMENT OF SOLIDARITY, WHICH STANDS FOR EVERYTHING WE STAND FOR, IS A BIG MISTAKE.

>> Sreenivasan: JOINING US NOW TO UNRAVEL THIS RAPID TURN OF INTERNATIONAL EVENTS IS "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER DAMIAN PALETTA.

DAMIAN, WE DON'T USUALLY TALK ABOUT THE DAY AFTER A G-5, G-6, G-7, G-8 SUMMIT AS SUCH A CONTROVERSIAL OR NEWSWORTHY EVENT, BUT WHERE ARE THINGS NOW?

LAST NIGHT, AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM I SAID THERE WAS A COMMUNIQUE, ALL OF THE COUNTRIES AGREED TO IT, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE ANYMORE.

>> NO.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I MEAN THIS IS REALLY A HUGE INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT.

WE HAD THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AGREE WITH SIX OTHER LEADING ECONOMIES TO THIS JOINT STATEMENT ABOUT TRADE AND FREE TRADE AND THEN THE PRESIDENT GOT ON AIR FORCE ONE TO FLY TO SINGAPORE FOR HIS NORTH KOREAN MEETING, SAW SOME COMMENTS THAT THE CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER MADE, JUSTIN TRUDEAU WHERE HE ESSENTIALLY SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE BE PUSHED AROUND BY THE UNITED STATES AND TRUMP WAS IRATE AND WITHDREW FROM THE COMMUNIQUE, NOW PRACTICALLY IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, IT IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER BUT SYMBOLICALLY IT IS INCREDIBLY SIGNIFICANT AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING A REAL UNRAVELING OF THE U.S.'S RELATIONSHIP WITH SOME OF ITS CLOSEST ALLIES AS THESE COUNTRIES REALLY START TO STAND UP TO THE PRESIDENT.

>> Sreenivasan: LET'S PUT THIS IN SORT OF CONCRETE TERMS, THE UNITED STATES HAS A HUGE GROUP OF CONSUMERS THAT RELY ON GOODS AND SERVICES FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND OBVIOUSLY THESE COUNTRIES RELY ON OUR CONSUMERS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SELLING.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS IN PRACTICAL TERMS IN A TRADE WAR OR A SITUATION WHERE THESE OTHER MAJOR COUNTRIES DECIDE TO HAVE MORE RESTRICTIVE POLICIES ON OUR PRODUCTS?

>> THE MOST PRACTICAL WAY-- TWO WAYS.

FIRST OF ALL, PRICES ON VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING AMERICAN CONSUMERS BUY UP AND DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN FROM THE LOWEST INCOME AMERICANS TO THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS, THOSE PRICES WILL GO UP, BECAUSE IF THINGS ARE NOT CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY ARE GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE BASED ON THE TARIFFS THAT MUST BE PAID WHEN THEY ARE BROUGHT INTO THE UNITED STATES.

SO COSTS ON CARS, ELECTRONICS, EVEN FOOD, COFFEE, EVERYTHING THAT IS A PART OF YOUR DAILY LIFE, THOSE COSTS WILL GO UP.

AND SECONDLY, IT WILL HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON AMERICAN JOBS.

IF OTHER COUNTRIES JUST STOP IMPORTING THE THINGS THAT ARE PRODUCED IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT MEANS THOSE COMPANIES WILL HAVE LESS REVENUE, THEY WILL LAY OFF WORKERS, THEN IT WILL SNOWBALL AND WE COULD QUICKLY SEE THIS BECOME A HUGE, GREAT RECESSION IF THESE THINGS ESCALATE EVEN FURTHER.

AND WHAT'S AMAZING IS THIS IS NOT THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA SQUARING OFF, OR THE UNITED STATES AND ANOTHER ADVERSARY, THESE ARE THE UNITED STATES AND THE BIGGEST TRADING PARTNERS, THE EUROPEAN UNION AND CANADA, AND SO HOW THIS GOES IS REALLY HARD TO SEE, BUT IT IS GOING IN A BAD DIRECTION.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY HAD VERY DIFFERENT TYPES OF OPTIONS ON THE TABLE, ON THE ONE HAND HE SAID TO PEOPLE, LISTEN, HOW ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A COMPLETELY FREE TRADE ZONE BETWEEN ALL OF OUR COUNTRIES, AND ON THE OTHER HAND HE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN'T WORK THESE THINGS OUT WE WILL JUST STOP TRADING ALTOGETHER.

>> EXACTLY.

I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR ALLIES, THE U.S.

ALLIES FEEL SO KIND OF CONFUSED AND THEY HAVE WHIPLASH BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT ON THE ONE HAND IS PROPOSING THE MOST FREE TRADE POLICY OF ALL-TIME, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY NO TARIFFS, WE JUST TRADE BACK AND FORTH WITH ONE ANOTHER AND, YOU KNOW, WE SELL OUR GOODS TO YOUR COUNTRY AND YOU SELL YOUR GOODS TO THIS COUNTRY WITH NO TARIFF, AND THEN HE SAYS WE ARE GOING TO STOP TRADING PERIOD IF YOU DON'T AGREE TO OUR DEMANDS, AND SO LIKE I SAID, THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A SENSE -- ONE THING THAT I NOTED ABOUT THIS G-7, THERE IS A SENSE THAT THESE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE STARTING TO STAND UP TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON, I WOULD, JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS STARTING TO STIFFEN A LITTLE BIT AS WELL, THE U.K. AND GERMANY AND THEY'RE STARTING TO CALL HIS BLUFF AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS HE IS SAYING, FINE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO, AND IF HE IS GOING TO FEEL PERSONALLY INSULTED, HE WILL RATCHET IT UP.

>> Sreeinvasan: SPEAKING OF STANDING UP TO THE PRESIDENT, ONE OF THE IMAGES THAT CAME OUT OF THIS AND THERE'S NOW 1,000 DIFFERENT MEMES AROUND THE IMAGES, ANGELA MERKEL SURROUNDED BY OTHER LEADERS: THERESA MAY, EMMANUEL MACRON, YOU HAVE GOT LITERALLY THE WORLD STANDING UP ALMOST ALL OF THEM STANDING TOGETHER AND YOU SEE PRESIDENT TRUMP SEATED IN A CHAIR, AND WHAT IS INTERESTING IS IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU LOOK AT THIS VERY SAME IMAGE THAT YOU CAN HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF IT.

>> YES, I THINK THAT PHOTOGRAPH IS GOING TO BE STUDIED QUITE HONESTLY FOR DECADES BECAUSE IT IS SORT OF REINFORCES BOTH OF THE PERSPECTIVES, ON THE ONE HAND IT SHOWS THE EUROPEANS STANDING TOGETHER, STANDING UP TO THE PRESIDENT AND CONFRONTING HIM, I BELIEVE AT THE TIME THEY WERE DISCUSSING THIS DOCUMENT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SIGNED AT THE END OF THE MEETING, AND ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT WITH ALL EYES ON HIM, RIGHT?

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS IN THIS SORT OF SETTING, HE WANTS EVERYONE TO BE COMING TO HIM, ASKING HIM KIND OF WHAT U.S. POLICY AND GLOBAL POLICY SHOULD BE.

SO I THINK BOTH, YOU KNOW, SIDES KIND OF FELT LIKE THEY DELIVERED THEIR MESSAGE, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I FEEL LIKE BOTH SIDES MUST FEEL LIKE THIS CONFERENCE, THIS SUMMIT WAS KIND OF A DISASTER, BECAUSE THINGS ARE ONLY GOING TO ESCALATE AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, PRODUCERS AND WORKERS AND CONSUMERS IN EACH COUNTRY ARE GOING TO SUFFER IF THIS THING CONTINUES ON THE PATH IT IS ON.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

DAMIAN PALETTA OF THE "WASHINGTON POST", THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU.

>> Sreenivasan: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS FACING LAWSUITS AND CRITICISM FOR ADDING A QUESTION ABOUT CITIZENSHIP TO THE UPCOMING 2020 CENSUS.

OPPONENTS SAY IT WILL DISCOURAGE NON-CITIZENS FROM PARTICIPATING, AND ALSO REDUCE GOVERNMENT FUNDING IN AREAS WITH LARGE NON- CITIZEN POPULATIONS WHO ARE NOT COUNTED.

THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAYS THE DATA IS NEEDED TO HELP ENFORCE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

AND THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT, WHICH OVERSEES THE CENSUS, RECENTLY RELEASED MORE THAN 1,000 PAGES OF DOCUMENTS ABOUT ITS DECISION TO INCLUDE THE CITIZENSHIP QUESTION.

N.P.R.

REPORTER HANSI LO WANG HAS BEEN EXAMINING THOSE DOCUMENTS, AND JOINS US NOW.

NOW, WHAT DID YOU LEARN?

>> WE LEARNED THAT THERE WAS AN INTERNAL MEMO PUT OUT BY THE CENSUS BUREAU FOR COMMERCE SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS THAT HE LOOKED OVER BEFORE HE MADE THIS DECISION AND IN THIS MEMO, CENSUS BUREAU OFFICIALS WARNED THAT ADDING A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION WOULD BE COSTLY.

THEY ESTIMATED THAT IT COULD INCREASE THE COST OF THE 2020 CENSUS BY AT LEAST $27.5 MILLION.

THE CONCERN HERE IS THAT NON-CITIZENS SEEING THAT THIS QUESTION IS APPEARING ON THE CENSUS FORM FOR THE FIRST TIME FOR ALL HOUSEHOLDS, SINCE 1950, AND ALSO IN THIS CURRENT CLIMATE OF INCREASED IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AND A RISE OF ANTI-IMMIGRANT RHETORIC ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT ALL OF THIS WOULD REALLY DISCOURAGE NON-CITIZENS FROM PARTICIPATING AND SO THEREFORE, WHERE MONEY WOULD BE NEEDED, MORE EFFORTS WOULD BE NEEDED FROM THE CENSUS BUREAU TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY PERSON IS COUNTED IN THE COUNTRY AS THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES.

>> Sreenivasan: BESIDES THE COST, THIS IS WHAT CHIEF SCIENTISTS IN THE CENSUS BUREAU, ARE THEY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ACCURACY OF IT OR THE QUALITY?

>> YES.

IF THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE PARTICIPATING, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET A COMPLETE COUNT, POSSIBLY, YOU TRY YOUR HARDEST TO KNOCK ON DOORS AND TO DO FOLLOW-UP, BUT SOME PEOPLE WILL JUST DO THEIR BEST TO NOT BE COUNTED.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE KRIS KOBACH IN ALL OF THIS?

>> WELL, WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THERE WERE E-MAILS THAT HE SENT TO COMMERCE SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS, WHO IS INCLUDED IN THESE DOCUMENTS AND THESE WERE E-MAILS THAT WERE SENT IN JULY OF 2017, AND HE SAID HE WAS DIRECTED BY STEVE BANNON, THE WHITE HOUSE, THE FORMER WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST TO SPEAK WITH COMMERCE SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS ABOUT A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION ON THE CENSUS, AND THIS IS MONTHS BEFORE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PUT IN A FORMAL REQUEST TO THE CENSUS BUREAU TO GET THIS QUESTION ADDED FOR THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAID.

>> Sreenivasan: SO THIS IS THE KANSAS SECRETARY OF STATE, HE MAKES THESE REQUESTS BUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT HAVE GIVEN DIFFERENT REASONS, THEY DIDN'T SAY THIS WAS PART OF THEIR THINKING.

>> THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT SAYS THEY ARE RESPONDING TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S REQUEST AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS SAYING WE NEED THIS FOR THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND WE NEED IT TO BETTER ENFORCE SECTION 2 OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, WHICH HAS PROVISIONS AGAINST RACIAL DISCRIMINATION AND THEY NEED BETTER DATA ON VOTING-AGE CITIZENS.

EVER SINCE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT HAS BEEN ENACTED, SINCE 1965, THEY HAVE USED ESTIMATES OF U.S. CITIZENS BASED ON SMALLER CENSUS BUREAU SURVEYS WHICH ONLY GO OUT TO A SAMPLE OF HOUSEHOLDS SO THEY NEED BETTER DATA IS WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAYS, BUT LOOKING AT THESE E-MAILS, KRIS KOBACH DOES NOT MENTION THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND CERTAINLY HE IS REFERENCING A PHONE CALL HE HAD WITH SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS, IT APPEARS IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, IT IS UNCLEAR EXACTLY THE EXTENT OF THE PHONE CALL, I HAVE REACHED OUT TO THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT TO GET MORE DETAILS AND THEY WOULDN'T PROVIDE ANY DETAILS.

AND THIS REALLY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED THEY SAID, AS PART OF WHAT WILBUR ROSS LOOKED AT.

>> Sreenivasan: ARE THERE OTHER WAYS THE CENSUS DEPARTMENT IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS A CITIZEN AND NOT A CITIZEN BESIDES JUST THIS QUESTION?

>> THERE IS.

RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE LOOKING INTO GETTING ACCESS TO FEDERAL DATA SETS FROM SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT, SPECIFICALLY VISA AND PASSPORT DATA, AS WELL AS FROM THE U.S.C.I.S.

TO LOOK AT THE NATURALIZATION DATA, AND THIS IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN THAT SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS DID APPROVE AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF CENSUS BUREAU OFFICIALS WHO ORIGINALLY SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO ADD A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION, MAYBE WE CAN COMPILE EXISTING GOVERNMENT DATA ABOUT U.S. CITIZENS TO CREATE A MORE COMPREHENSIVE DATA SET OF HOW MANY CITIZENS THERE ARE IN THE COUNTRY.

AND SO THIS IS PART OF THE PLAN CURRENTLY, AND WE WILL SEE HOW THIS PANS OUT BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY NEW TERRITORY FOR THE CENSUS BUREAU TO USE THIS DATA IN THIS WAY.

>> Sreenivasan: SO IF THIS QUESTION IS INCLUDED IN THE CENSUS NOW, AND IF THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT UNDERCOUNT WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS?

>> THE RIPPLE EFFECTS ARE HUGE, POSSIBLY.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE CENSUS NUMBERS ARE USED TO REALLY BUILD OUR GOVERNMENT, THEY DIRECTLY IMPACT HOW MANY SEATS OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES EACH STATE GETS AND ALSO IMPACTS HOW THE GOVERNMENT FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL DOWN TO THE LOCAL LEVEL, HOW LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN AND AGAIN THE FEDERAL DOLLARS AND HOW THAT $800 BILLION A YEAR ESTIMATED IS DISTRIBUTED, AND THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS WHICH HIGHWAYS GET REPAIRED, WHICH ROADS GET BUILT, HOW SCHOOL DISTRICTS DECIDE WHERE TO BUILD NEW SCHOOLS AND WHERE BUSINESSES DECIDE WHERE TO BUILD NEW SUPERMARKETS A LOT OF THIS IS DEPENDENT ON THE CENSUS NUMBERS.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, HANSI LO WANG OF NPR, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Sreenivasan: TOMORROW ON THE NEWSHOUR, THE FIRST OF A FIVE PART SERIES, "THE END OF AIDS, FAR FROM OVER," FOCUSING ON THE GLOBAL FIGHT AGAINST THE H.I.V.

AIDS EPIDEMIC.

THAT'S ALL FOR THIS EDITION OF PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND.

I AM HARI SREENIVASAN.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.